Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

[Graias]

Hey Larry,

about storyline and adding more fantasy / fiction to the scene: I don’t care much about that. I realize everyone is different, but the question here is: what do I want to see? Young beautiful girls being tortured. Adding a fiction context to it has for me not much value. The way it is done in Graias right now (except for the severity of the punishments) would be more than ok. The girl comes in and gets beaten. Simple and direct.

Your parallel with the films of the Saw franchise is only partially acceptable. If I am watching a movie I like to be taken by the story, the characters, the twists. If those are missing, I have no interest in watching two hours of: car chases, building exploding, or people getting killed in horrible ways. But that’s because the whole should function as a work of art (“Seven” is a beautiful example of this...horrible things in it, but the movie is great). That’s NOT what I expect (or look for) when I watch BDSM or porn. Because in that case I only need to get my fix of sex / torture and get off on it.

Let’s make an analogy with porn: I enjoy porn scenes where the first thing you see is the girl...maybe she gives a very short “interview” (name, age and so on) then she gets naked in front of the camera, guys come in, and fuck her brains out. “Storylines” bore me and I usually skip them. I want to see her get fucked. A bad storyline (with usually bad acting) doesn’t add anything to that.

So for me it would be best to keep it as straight and simple as possible. My interest goes to the beauty of the girl and how severely she’s being tortured. Others may have different expectations, of course.

Hey there!

That analogy was an example to compare how unrealistic elements such as a (often fictional) story line. fantasy, superhero, etc. can be included in a movie while visual elements such as blood, gore, etc seem real and believable.

I understand there is a difference between porn and other genre of movies but the point is, we could add some of these unrealistic elements to make it seem like these beatings are happening for real to a girl who again seem like doesn't enjoy the punishment at all. That was the main point.

Now the question is what unrealistic element(s) you'd like to see in our videos. For example, I got this message from a friend of mine that he described a whole story happening in middle east (with islamic theme). Referring to the reasons you mentioned, we can't include the whole story from the beginning to the end in a porn video, however, we can include some elements such as hijab to make it seem like it's happening there.

Another idea that Floor 13 brought up, was to make the model's bondage as tight as possible, making her unable to make even the slightest moves. Again, this is an unrealistic element that in reality (see real pictures of slavery era) rarely happens. but we can add that to our video to fulfill this fantasy.

[Graias]

I like the idea but the problem is the Lomp style. Why should not a woman whip a other woman? When I look at the old mood pictures/elitepain films there are a lot of good whippings admistered by Jenny and Kyra but never a good whipping by Lomp. At the end the girls are marked well but he never did a furious whipping/canning like Jenny or Kyra did. He is always playing a strict teacher. Kyra would only say: shut up or you get more...it would be good if they speak english in the film. A good looking woman strung up and whipped as hard as possible, two or three positions for different body parts and you have a good movie. I don´t like rape or to see Lomp squeezing tits with his hands. I think torture with needles or nails are also not a option. Torturegalaxy produced so much extrem stuff so it make no sence to try that. But nobody I know produce simple but extrem femsub whipping films. Women with different body styles would also be good. I like fit and muscular females, other prefere slim or womenly subs. I like girls who fight not to scream other like if they are screaming all the time. I understand that it is not possible to produce a film everybody like. If you ask 20 people you get 20 different answeres.....

I see exactly what you mean and here's my short answer: just give us some time!
those scenes you mentioned are quite different than what we are planing to do. The most obvious differentiating factor is time. Usually things get easier to do as time goes on. In porn industry (or at least BDSM) that's vice versa.

Speaking English is one thing, having a "good" accent is another. We're not based in US and frankly, it's not easy to find a model ready to perform as a sub/dom AND educated enough to speak English with reasonable fluency. But I agree that it's beneficial business wise.

Regarding the differences in tastes: let's go with the basics here:

We (VIP members) all enjoy to see females in extreme pain.

now there are two moving parts here:

• FEMALE (body type, position, age, scream, etc.)

• PAIN (method, instrument, duration, intensity, etc.)

Our job as a BDSM video producer is to change these factors (just like lock pickers) to finally find the right combination to fulfill each member's fantasy. The expected time it would take for us to produce one ideal scene for one specific member is three months. (Our monthly catalogs contain 5-10 scenes) This is what our business model says and we'll do our best to achieve that.

Thanks for following the topic!

[sloth79]

Hey there!

That analogy was an example to compare how unrealistic elements such as a (often fictional) story line. fantasy, superhero, etc. can be included in a movie while visual elements such as blood, gore, etc seem real and believable.

I understand there is a difference between porn and other genre of movies but the point is, we could add some of these unrealistic elements to make it seem like these beatings are happening for real to a girl who again seem like doesn't enjoy the punishment at all. That was the main point.

Now the question is what unrealistic element(s) you'd like to see in our videos. For example, I got this message from a friend of mine that he described a whole story happening in middle east (with islamic theme). Referring to the reasons you mentioned, we can't include the whole story from the beginning to the end in a porn video, however, we can include some elements such as hijab to make it seem like it's happening there.

Another idea that Floor 13 brought up, was to make the model's bondage as tight as possible, making her unable to make even the slightest moves. Again, this is an unrealistic element that in reality (see real pictures of slavery era) rarely happens. but we can add that to our video to fulfill this fantasy.

Thanks for your answer. I get your point.

What unrealistic element(s) you’d like to see in our videos
Well… as little fiction as possible. Of course a little fiction is always necessary. I get that. The model has signed a contract, and knows what’s going to happen. She will act as she’d like to stop, or beg, and so on. In reality she has a safe word she can use, of course. So in that case, I find fiction useful and necessary. Because even if the beatings are real, everything else is staged. So I am perfectly aware that you have to use a certain amount of fiction and pretend.
Very tight restraints can be there or not. The important thing is that the girl does not turn away from the punishment. Some can stay still while being beaten, others turn instinctively away and cover themselves. In that case a tight restraint would be useful and appreciated (again, the model has to agree to it, of course). By the way, that can get as „unrealistic“ as you want… it is a tool that you use during the shoot, just like a whip. No problem.

What I don’t care for, is a staged situation like the Islamic one you were describing (or a medieval, or Roman empire, or whatever). That’s an entirely different level of fiction, which is not necessary for me. I don’t feel you need to explain why the girl is being tortured (or fucked, if we are talking about porn). It’s going to happen because this is what I want to see. Wrapping some bogus story / excuse around it, is a waste of resources in my opinion. I would prefer if those resources were used to get pretty girls willing to be punished.

Again, maybe some members need this sort of fantasy… but it is a waste of time for me.

[Hut]

Good project, difficult but not impossible to pull off. Here is maybe a different take.

Personally I think imagination is more important than realism, and I would not be interested in a project that would not be 100% consensual. I think we are already aligned here.

I'm happy to see whatever a consensual masochist is able to take, and whatever it is. Essentially, since we have differing opinion of what people find arousing or not, you might be better off with going with what masochists like, because it is going to be 100% consensual and extreme.

Take for example some of the well-known masochists in the community, e.g. bloodislove2me (look on fetlife) who loves extreme whippings or hitmeharrder. Who would not have loved to see hitmeharrder being branded for real, like she was?

If you go with vanilla girls who don't like pain, you are going to have difficulty making extreme stuff while remaining consensual.

[Stev]

Fundamentals:
What do we mean by "extremely real" here? We want to simply start a club where masochist models who are professionals in experiencing pain, join and help us in creating BDSM content. No part of this is non consensual.

What does "extreme" mean in this context? it's a word that I used to imply the difference of future videos with what other studios make. Of course if I film anything related to BDSM, as long as I'm not using CGI or animations, it's real. right? What I meant by extreme is that we're not gonna use any make-up and we're not gonna ask the masochist models to fake screams.
[...]

- The tortured girl (victim masochist model in real life) should be appear as if she is being forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done to look like it's against her will and without her consent (which looks NON CONSENSUAL ! but it's in fact 100% concesuall), otherwise it can't be considered as "real". (Which is totally possible to be considered to be real, that's basically why movies exist in general -- to make the viewer think that these things are really happening whether the genre is horror, drama or porn)

I would like to address a point here that took up only a small space in your response, but for me - and knowing the forum and the community - is a very essential aspect.

You write that your models should be masochistically inclined. So they like to feel pain, and then they are supposed to play as if they were not or even if it were not consensual. I feel that this is FAKE (please excuse the drastic expression). The girls should not enjoy pain but just go along with it because they want the money. Of course, what happens is consensual then. I'm sure we all agree that nothing should happen that is not consensual. But there is a difference between consensual and desired. So if the models like the pain because they are masochistic, that is a no-go for many (and for me too). Anything that is untrue, in my opinion, jeopardizes the realism we all desire.

Pedro once commented on this topic in this forum, telling that a masochistic model wanted to be in his movies. It even went so far as to have specific ideas about how she should be tortured. He refused because he doesn't want masochists. I am convinced that he thus addressed a very essential core of this fetish. By the very nature of his films - namely, playing a game of pain - he manages to create an engaging setting that is real. The motivation of the actors is understandable and doesn't feel fake.

Pedro's films feature girls who have had little or no previous experience with pain. Recently they are from the porn industry, but just not from the BDSM sector. Seeing their reaction when they learn how intense the experience is, namely more intense than they would have expected, is part of the awesomeness of the EP films. If you take masochists as actors, that essential aspect is eliminated.

I would love to see other members comment on this issue:
Do we want to see masochists taking pleasure in pain? Do we want anything to be pretend? Or do we want settings and girls suffering as realistic as possible?

[Fakdanie]

Stev's three questions:
1) no
2) no
3) yes. Consensual 100% and with not less than gorgeous women. I know it's not easy.

[theroughman]

Fundamentals:
What do we mean by "extremely real" here? We want to simply start a club where masochist models who are professionals in experiencing pain, join and help us in creating BDSM content. No part of this is non consensual.

What does "extreme" mean in this context? it's a word that I used to imply the difference of future videos with what other studios make. Of course if I film anything related to BDSM, as long as I'm not using CGI or animations, it's real. right? What I meant by extreme is that we're not gonna use any make-up and we're not gonna ask the masochist models to fake screams.
[...]

- The tortured girl (victim masochist model in real life) should be appear as if she is being forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done to look like it's against her will and without her consent (which looks NON CONSENSUAL ! but it's in fact 100% concesuall), otherwise it can't be considered as "real". (Which is totally possible to be considered to be real, that's basically why movies exist in general -- to make the viewer think that these things are really happening whether the genre is horror, drama or porn)

I would like to address a point here that took up only a small space in your response, but for me - and knowing the forum and the community - is a very essential aspect.

You write that your models should be masochistically inclined. So they like to feel pain, and then they are supposed to play as if they were not or even if it were not consensual. I feel that this is FAKE (please excuse the drastic expression). The girls should not enjoy pain but just go along with it because they want the money. Of course, what happens is consensual then. I'm sure we all agree that nothing should happen that is not consensual. But there is a difference between consensual and desired. So if the models like the pain because they are masochistic, that is a no-go for many (and for me too). Anything that is untrue, in my opinion, jeopardizes the realism we all desire.

Pedro once commented on this topic in this forum, telling that a masochistic model wanted to be in his movies. It even went so far as to have specific ideas about how she should be tortured. He refused because he doesn't want masochists. I am convinced that he thus addressed a very essential core of this fetish. By the very nature of his films - namely, playing a game of pain - he manages to create an engaging setting that is real. The motivation of the actors is understandable and doesn't feel fake.

Pedro's films feature girls who have had little or no previous experience with pain. Recently they are from the porn industry, but just not from the BDSM sector. Seeing their reaction when they learn how intense the experience is, namely more intense than they would have expected, is part of the awesomeness of the EP films. If you take masochists as actors, that essential aspect is eliminated.

I would love to see other members comment on this issue:
Do we want to see masochists taking pleasure in pain? Do we want anything to be pretend? Or do we want settings and girls suffering as realistic as possible?

We DON'T want to see girls who enjoy the pain! We want to see girls who suffer and hate the pain, but take it consensually because of payment and contract.

[Graias]

Fundamentals:
What do we mean by "extremely real" here? We want to simply start a club where masochist models who are professionals in experiencing pain, join and help us in creating BDSM content. No part of this is non consensual.

What does "extreme" mean in this context? it's a word that I used to imply the difference of future videos with what other studios make. Of course if I film anything related to BDSM, as long as I'm not using CGI or animations, it's real. right? What I meant by extreme is that we're not gonna use any make-up and we're not gonna ask the masochist models to fake screams.
[...]

- The tortured girl (victim masochist model in real life) should be appear as if she is being forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done to look like it's against her will and without her consent (which looks NON CONSENSUAL ! but it's in fact 100% concesuall), otherwise it can't be considered as "real". (Which is totally possible to be considered to be real, that's basically why movies exist in general -- to make the viewer think that these things are really happening whether the genre is horror, drama or porn)

I would like to address a point here that took up only a small space in your response, but for me - and knowing the forum and the community - is a very essential aspect.

You write that your models should be masochistically inclined. So they like to feel pain, and then they are supposed to play as if they were not or even if it were not consensual. I feel that this is FAKE (please excuse the drastic expression). The girls should not enjoy pain but just go along with it because they want the money. Of course, what happens is consensual then. I'm sure we all agree that nothing should happen that is not consensual. But there is a difference between consensual and desired. So if the models like the pain because they are masochistic, that is a no-go for many (and for me too). Anything that is untrue, in my opinion, jeopardizes the realism we all desire.

Pedro once commented on this topic in this forum, telling that a masochistic model wanted to be in his movies. It even went so far as to have specific ideas about how she should be tortured. He refused because he doesn't want masochists. I am convinced that he thus addressed a very essential core of this fetish. By the very nature of his films - namely, playing a game of pain - he manages to create an engaging setting that is real. The motivation of the actors is understandable and doesn't feel fake.

Pedro's films feature girls who have had little or no previous experience with pain. Recently they are from the porn industry, but just not from the BDSM sector. Seeing their reaction when they learn how intense the experience is, namely more intense than they would have expected, is part of the awesomeness of the EP films. If you take masochists as actors, that essential aspect is eliminated.

I would love to see other members comment on this issue:
Do we want to see masochists taking pleasure in pain? Do we want anything to be pretend? Or do we want settings and girls suffering as realistic as possible?

I've been a viewer of this forum for a long time and never knew what it feels like to actually have an interaction with the members. Now that I have started communicating with you (as a member of Graias Team) I see how careful I have to be on the words that I choose. I don't know much about who you are in life outside of this forum, but it feels like I'm in an academic symposium. Needless to say that I am from academia and I love these kind of discussions.

The post that you're referring to, was a response to a critical opinion aiming at the viability of our club. It wasn't a standalone message and that's why I suggest that in order to issue a fair criticism, one should shine a spotlight on the whole discussion that yielded to that post, and avoid to focus on just one word of one part of one of the discussions in this thread.

The word "Consent" that you approved as the prerequisite of a BDSM session, has a legal definition. People’s right to consent to pain and injury has always been one of the most controversial issues in criminal law and moral philosophy. As far as i know, Hungarian law, did NOT refer to this word (consent) when defining battery. Which means any BDSM producer in Hungary could be legally punished, should a model file a lawsuit with evidence of harm on her body. The fact that the model we're referring to is a female (known for being vulnerable in the court) gives the prosecutor a huge advantage. This is why we have to keep great relationship with every model as long as possible. Everything has to be and remain consensual. A masochist model is most likely to remain consensual than a model who's just seeking financial interest.

Had I used the word "consensual" instead of "masochist", one could've argued that what this club is going to do, is fundamentally illegal according to the local law. Because there's no consent when it comes to battery. However, when our club states that only "masochists models" are welcome, in fact, we ensure our concerned friends that we will not exploit anyone.

The point is, when I have to respond to a post that criticize the legal aspects of our club, I have to use the words that go beyond legal red lines. In many part of the world, you can't pay a homeless woman and buy her consent to extreme beating. The law will protect this women, in case she decides to take her case to the court.

But as you mentioned, hiring masochist models is not the only way of legally protecting the club after the beating is finished. The key here is to create engagement: a sort of friendly relationship with models that keeps them loyal to the club. When a model is masochist, this relationship will be established very easily.

Our team is able to create this level of friendship with models . Over the years and we have built a loyal network of models who:

1. Criterion 1: have been engaged (or is very likely to stay engaged) with our Business for a long time

• Criterion 2: have financial interest in working with our studio

both of these criteria are important, specially in our case (extreme beatings) . Criteria number 1, acts like the safety valve and is necessary, even if it's not the major factor. If this club wasn't about extreme beating, I wouldn't be writing on this forum, and none of these discussions was necessary. So I invite you and all of our fans to consider this important factor when comparing us to other entities.


References: (for those who are interested in consensual harm)

The Right to Be Hurt by Vera Bergelson: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/76622718.pdf
Hungarian Criminal Code: https://thb.kormany.hu/download/a/46/11000/Btk_EN.pdf

Attachment: This is from the Business Model of VIP club. (all rights reserved for MediumStream Kft.) Explains a lot of things ...

[dragom16]

saying that a masochistic model wanted to be in his movies. She even came to have specific ideas about how she should be tortured. He refuses because he doesn't want masochists. I am convinced that he thus addressed a very essential core of this fetish. By the very nature of his films, that is, by playing a game of pain, he manages to create a captivating setting that is real. The motivation of the actors is understandable and does not seem false.

Pedro's films feature girls who have had little or no previous experience with pain. Recently they are from the porn industry, but not from the BDSM sector. Seeing their reaction when they find out how intense the experience is, I mean, more intense than they expected, is part of the genius of the EP movies. If masochists are taken as actors, this essential aspect is eliminated.
It seems to me that Pedro doesn't want a player to win because you think he offers prizes of 10,000 and 20,000 dollars that no one has won so far; On the other hand, a masochistic woman would conquer them without a problem and it seems to me that this is what Pedro does not want, well that is my opinion.

[sloth79]

Hey Larry,
I have to say I am impressed, you and the team have obviously given this whole thing much thought, and reasoned things through.

I wouldn’t have any problems to see a masochist female taking a beating (as long as she’s pretty). It can actually be more fun, if she has higher limits than other models and can accept and take more severe punishment (and then coming back for more). And who says a masochist cannot scream or cry?

Plus, as a business model (as you mentioned), could work better, because if the girls don’t come back after the first shoot if they hated it, the club would have a short life span…