With Hostel 2 fixing to be released next Friday I've been following some of the messageboard chatter at IMDB - looks like some guy got hold of a workprint copy of the flick and posted it somewhere for download - not a few folks have posted their views on what happens after giving it a look - while aware this is a workprint with CGI and FX needing to be added, the posts of these horror movie fans were remarkably consistent so have a certain level of cred.

If these are anywhere near accurate it sounds like Gimpers may be in for a disappointment other than the Heather scene - the "twist" ending sounds lame but probably had to be thrown in the give the flick some "social relevancy" - in any case let's "hope for the best and expect the worst" - no spoilers here so if you wish, check them out at IMDB

In the meantime, I loved the imdb discussion thread started by someone named candygirltasteright. I have attached the link in my URL (I believe you need an imdb password to access it). If it's true that opposites attract, I think candy girl could be the perfect woman for some lucky GIMPer.

And the reply from the guy who said "The nude upside girl did :)" LOL!

I especially like this comment above: "I think I'd like to torture you candytits...Go watch Mean Girls and practice giving your 15 year old boyfriend felatio."

And then she says "my tits are for jesus"! Gawd, where do they find these people? You can't write better comedy than this :)

Actually, I'm not going to read the comments about Hostel Part 2 until AFTER I see the movie. We're only a week away and frankly, I don't wanna know too much more at this point. I know the online bootleg is already out there, but I'll give my money to the original creators of the movie, no matter if it turns out to be a disappointment. We're still guaranteed at least 3 hot young lovelies bound and gagged and maybe tortured, so I think that's worth a trip to my local cineplex.

Canadian: that 210 min review is a real achievement, very detailed!

I managed to get hold of a classic ZFX film, 'RoboPimp' - truly mental freaky sci-fi spectacle stuff) (5 Aussie dollars...a bargain!) second hand copy from a Sydney Porn Store which is getting rid anything 'Bondage' after the crackdowns - our avenue of pleasure has been closed for now....but let's let it fester for a while - since a lot of places sell ZFX 'under the counter' - prohibition style.

The governments idea of 'acceptable' bondage erotica is 'Toe-sucking and feet fetish!!!!?!? and the odd British School ol' fashioned spanking. - laughable.

Ironically, You can borrow Rob Zombie's 'The Devil's Rejects' which is pretty gory, brutal film from your local Video Ezy or Civic Video store without any eyes being raised (by the way 'Rejects' is pretty intense and there's quite a few 'gimpworthy' scenes there too!)

It's an election year in Australia and the current polls show the Liberal Party doing poorly in the ratings) here in Oz "Liberal" means conservative not progressive!!- so the Liberals are an Aussie version of the US Republicans...and just like the US Republicans they've been courting the attention of the conservative 'Family Values' Christian groups (Particularly one Sydney based group called "Hillsong" located in the northern affluent middle-class suburbs- which boasts a Revered Schuler-style prayer Hall like the one in Orange County). - then they are followed by the Feminist lobby and lately: the Islamists - Australia has a fairly large Muslim population (Arabic is the fourth language spoken in Australia (other big ones are: Chinese, Vietnamese, Greek and Italian) in terms of numbers of speakers...mainly migrants from Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq) their lobby groups are fairly powerful - and take objection at everything that is "Anglo-Australian"...(why live there then?!?)- so its a 'crusade-jihad' against free speech were up against.

I think I mentioned before 'Girly' Mags in Australian cannot show 'nipples' on the cover - they must be covered by the models hands or by some other means, yet recently a court judge refused to punish a teenager who said "Fuck" aloud in public because he believed the 'F' word is as acceptable as saying 'Shit' and not really shocking anymore to most ears....., we live in a land of 'extremes' - go figure!

I'll stop 'gas-bagging' and just tell you that Robopimp is 'bloody good' - and worth a look, and Lisa K. is "Bloody" good..., so Gimpers I'll get the :"bloody" hell outta the way and I'll see ya later!

Cheers!!!

"Sticks and Stones will break my 'Bone' but Porn will never hurt me' (Graffitti spotted in a Sydney Public Toilet recently)

As many of you know, Bill's intention is to make a movie about the true-life story of Colleen Stan, the "Girl in the Box" who was abducted, tortured and forced to live inside a wooden box for 7 years by a man named Richard Hooker (the fascinating account of which can be read at the link above).

To say that the story is a bondage fan's dream project is an understatement. Many of us, including me, have waited for years for someone to tackle this story and make a realistic movie out of it. Certainly, the subject matter alone would make it a must-see. I talked to Bill this week and he sent me a 15-page synopsis of what he has planned. And what he sent me is very exciting stuff. We're talking about constant bondage, clothes being cut off, torture with a needle, burned with a lit cigarette, rape, molestation with a bottle, forced fellatio, and that's not even half of it. Sounds good so far?

And to make things even better, check out the beautiful Sativa Verte, his choice for starring in the movie:

http://ralphus.net/dailypic2010/sativa64710d5558ce.jpg

This girl is sweet and sexy and has no problem with nudity and bondage. To me, it's perfect casting.

But here's what I perceive as a problem, and to me, it's a HUGE problem. Bill thinks Sativa will not be able to pull off the acting challenge, so here's his solution: He plans to have Sativa wear a leather mask over her face to hide what he perceives as her bad acting. And we're talking about during the entire first half of the movie, where most of the bondage and torture take place. The way he writes it, the victim in his story will not be able to see her captor at all until halfway through the movie, which incidentally is NOT what happened in real life. Hooker made her wear a wooden box over her head only when she was left alone, but NOT when he was torturing and using her.

I asked Bill about possibly using a blindfold instead, but he didn't seem receptive. So herein lies the problem. You have a beautiful girl cast in this important role, in this most-important movie. And the way it's planned now, we're not going to see this:

We're not even going to see this:

No, right now, it sounds like we're going to see something along the lines of this instead:

I asked Bill directly, why cast a beautiful girl and then prevent us from seeing her face during all the good scenes?

And he replied with a laugh, "The bondage audience will hate that!"

Exactly. And bondage people are the ones who would want to buy a movie like this! IMO, preventing us from seeing the face will seriously mar the impact of any bondage and torture scenes. You might as well be tying up and torturing a mannequin.

Maybe it's only me, though. That's where you guys come in. Bill needs your opinions. The movie hasn't been shot yet, and Bill is still writing the script. And he reads this board and I'm sure he would value some feedback. This poll is for him. Maybe he will listen to what his fans and future fans have to say.

GIMP POLL:
Would you buy or rent a movie that features an otherwise beautiful victim being bound, raped and tortured, even if you are prevented from seeing her face?

Guys, I cannot stress enough how important it is to vote in this latest poll. Your opinions could possibly have an impact on a movie that has the potential to be a GIMP masterpiece, but we need to hear what you have to say. Bill will read your comments, so we need EVERYONE to vote. Don't let me down. Voice your opinions! You could really make a difference this time!

There appear to be a number of these films(at least 17, according to the above website), all directed by an Andy Casanova (I gather these are not his first bondage/abuse films, either -- they are just the ones I first noted).

The couple I've seen have some variably attractive girls getting attacked and abused by various guys. Some of them are fairly attractive, if not exceedingly so. I'm not sure what is included in all these, yet (one of the previews of one of the above films shows a picture of a girl's hand rather obviously up the perv's ass) but that does not appear to be typical of them. Physical assault and sexual abuse is, though.

I've specifically seen #10 - "Cappuccetto Rosso", which has three scenes in it. Since I don't speak Italian, I can't tell you exactly who and why the assaults are occurring, but it's got one very attractive girl being attacked outdoors and another one being captured outdoors and "brought home" (She looks exceptionally good until he has her home and she's stripped -- she's got a number of tats and is rather flat-chested... but she's not ugly by any means). The middle scene looks a little less forced, but she's certainly getting glorked (i.e., the sound made during forced fellatio). There's also some def. anal going on, too, in all three. If anything, it appears more common than normal sex.

The above link is to a website which appears to sell some of them via download. No idea how legit they are, not recommending them, but if you want to see boxcovers and some screenshots, it's one place to start. I believe the site does not give search-links, so you'll probably have to click on the above and then enter "stupri italiani" into the search box on the left. They list 13 of them at the moment.

As far as the mask question, I HATE masks. I don't generally waste my time on stuff that has masks, etc. I'm a minimalist, not a leather junkie. The less rope, vinyl, leather, etc., that can be involved the better. Anything more than the minimum just gets in the way.

I have a number of problems with Bill Zebub's films. He has great premises, but then lets the viewer down with shoddy editing and weak performances. It seems that if he is willing to degrade his movie because the lead actress can't act, then he is not striving for perfection. I could live with the leather mask thing although I would prefer a gagged face. But why should I spend my money on a producer who won't go that extra yard for the viewer? Still, I wish him luck.

Per: Nice work!

Hell, no! If he thinks she "will not be able to pull off the acting challenge", then he needs to find another actress. They are out there (see the films of Peachy Keen to see women up to SEVERE acting challenges)!

To be honest, a good abduction film with Bill's actress tied up and forced to perform oral sex- I would purchase it, without hesitation. With a mask- I wouldn't fork over 5.00 for a rental!

Just my opinion....

Female torment is an art, and as an art it must be observed to understand the wheres, whys and hows of it, ergo she must see and be seen to make it work better for you and your applications your going to share and use on her.

C. Jailer

Now, if you're talking about a really hot body, would I want to see the movie anyway? I probably would.. but no face shown would be an obstacle for me, not a turn on.

Whether or not her face was covered up in real life is irrelevant. If you shoot a movie where we aren't allowed to see the woman's face during her ordeal, you're stripping away any potential your movie has for being dramatic. I don't care if your audience is into bondage or not, if you can't see the woman's face, no one is going to care about what happens to her. That would be about the only way you could totally fuck up a story as good as this one. Listen to the people here and STOP YOURSELF before you make a TERRIBLE MISTAKE!

Sativa Verte is a sweetheart. As Ralphus said, if she's willing to get naked and do bondage, that is terrific and it should be encouraged, and we should be able to see her pretty face as she suffers.

It's quite rare in the U.S. to find someone so attractive and wholesome looking who will do bondage movies. So often, we GIMPers have to accept victims with tattoos and/or breast implants.

I can sympathize with the concerns about her acting abilities. But let's face it, women like Jessica Alba and Scarlett Johansson are way out of your price league, and wouldn't do a movie like this even if you could afford them. Sativa looks better than average for this type of film. No one is expecting her to be the next Julianne Moore.

I gotta go with my fellow GIMPers on this one. Putting a mask over Sativa's face would be a deal breaker for me.

Got to say no way to this - it is just not an appealing idea. Given the forum here and it's main interests I could see how some would be ok with it. But I've got to see a gagged face. I like blindfolds a lot and some can be very large as to cover a lot of the head - so I could see a fully gagged and blindfolded babe for a whole video but just from the neck on down - NO

Anyway, I am not making the Colleen story. Colleen's predicament inspired me because I was taking a class called "The Psychologoical Foundations of Personality." In that class there was a lecture about how some victims fall in love with their captors. It's purely an adaptation strategy, and totally unconscious. It is far less stressful to love your captor than to hate him. But this mostly applied to situations when the captive was not harmed. I remembered hearing about the Colleen story and bought a book about her, not to use her story, but to try to identify the various psychological phases.

Ralphus has read a basic story outline which I have yet to flesh out in a script. But I am not making a bondage movie, nor am I making a movie for prurient interest. I am going to make a bizarre horror movie. Being that I am an indie movie maker and not a slave to the MPAA rating (nor am I going for mainstream distribution), I am going to try to make it extreme in some ways. To note a difference, an indie movie maker will present a scene in a "safe" visual presentation. He/she would compose the shots differently, and any kind of unusual nudity or torture would only briefly appear on screen, or only give the viewer enough to let the real violence or rape happen in the viewer's imagination. I don't know how graphic I will make it, but I know that within a very short time I will have earned a "no way!" from the MPAA. Even so, it's not going to be what you want, so save your money, lol.

The movie can go a lot of ways, mood-wise and presentation. I just don't know yet because I don't know who I will cast. The villain can be a tough guy or it can be a dork. I think that a dork might be more original (and realistic). I am not a girl so I don't know if I am qualified to judge, but I would think that a girl would be more creeped out by a dork. That's not to say that a tough guy would be prince charming. I am referring to the brain wiring of a girl. A part of them is designed to favor the alpha male. We are not slaves to our instincts, of course, but if that brain wiring puts brutes in the female's list of possible mates, then a total loser (a dork is part of the female's "never mate with this male" list, unless the dork is rich or highly intelligent - that is also part of a human female's evolution: to gain the male's resources). Maybe I am going into this with too much depth, and it will probably never be pondered by the viewer, but I like to keep these things in mind because all of my movies are personal experiments.

I don't know which way the movie will end up, but I am making the movie to make a movie, not to satisfy the pangs of a particular crowd. It's not a compliment to me if I hear, "I really like how she hated being fondled." Anyone can make that kind of movie. I'd much rather hear, "That was a fucked up movie! Goddamn!" I am not going to get that from any of you.

I guess you can't accuse him of pandering.

Well, Bill Zebub certainly has a unique approach to filmmaking: give the people what they don't want.

Yeah, simply amazing. It really makes you wonder, considering he's tackling the Holy Grail of true-life bondage subjects, why he would totally diss the very crowd that would be interested in such a movie. He didn't act that way when I gave a good grade to Scream Queen. In fact, he said in his initial post (August 13, 2005...linked above) "I'll discard the type of material that you didn't really go for, and I'll add stuff that you want more of." It seemed then that he genuinely wanted to improve as a filmmaker, but his last few releases I saw from him were truly awful. He takes a gorgeous woman like Kerri Taylor and makes her wear a mask almost all the way throughout The Crucifier and wonders why we didn't like it? Can you say "duh"?

He literally films an entire movie in slow-motion (Boy, that was a chore to have to endure), gets criticized for it (not just by me, either) and guess what? He still didn't learn his lesson. He told me that in the new movie he just finished shooting, the monster ties some of the victims before molesting/killing them and the rapes and murders are all shot...in slow motion. Gee, you think that's gonna suck?

A filmmaker makes movies to reach out to an audience, but then you have to wonder...who would be the audience for a film by Bill Zebub? He seems to want to make these extreme, taboo independent films that will get people talking, but he also comes across as either stubborn or clueless when given a suggestion that would make it appeal to the very people that would want to buy his movies. It's a pretty overwhelming consensus right now among GIMPers that almost no one will want to buy this new movie he's planning on shooting because he's making a fatal mistake that will doom the movie even before it's filmed.

Bill told me this film is sort of an anti-horror movie, whatever that means. I guess he figures by doing something different and against the norm, people will recognize him as some sort of revolutionary underground filmmaker. Sorry, Bill. The reason no one shoots entire films in slow motion and covers up the faces of beautiful actresses is because...well, because it's just totally stupid. No one wants to see a movie like that. If you're attempting to make a film that bondage fans will hate, you accomplished your goal. And quite likely, the rest of your audience will end up with the same reaction.

I do like "fucked-up" horror movies but they are rare. More often than not, the filmmaker gets too artsy in trying to get that viewer reaction, and the end result is laughable. I do wish you luck in your effort. And if you ever decide to do a film geared for bondage fans, you know where to seek advice (even if you don't take it.)

But, it will be much harder for any performer to emote anything while masked. So this may take a poor actress and make her performance look even worse. Which makes me wonder, if a producer is going to have a bondage scene (or bondage styled movie), why not just get some of the bettter bondage performers?

The above link is from Sex & Submission (that is if I linked the right page) and features a masked victim for the first half of the set. I dont think it suffers at all from the mask.

I haven't posted in a while, but this poll is just too meaty!

Anyway, I don't think you have to be brilliant to get where Zebub is heading with his picture. He calls himself an "indie" film producer, envisions himself getting some kind of Sundance film award, while critics tout his "edgy work" as a new kind of psychological cinema masterpiece. Now so far I have no problem with the guy having lofty ambitions for himself and his art.

At the same time its also painfully obvious that Zebub has little confidence that his work will be a commercial success, so he plans on using THIS audience, again, to sell some dvds. Now I don't know about you guys, but I don't like being used by ANYBODY. Sure, the mainstream media has been sticking varying amounts of bondage and rape footage in programming for years, and to good effect. You guys know how I feel about Dragnet and Superman! But their products are not using this board as free advertising for third rate productions.

No, Mr. Zebub, I have never seen any of your work to date. (And am highly unlikely to do so now.) I have long ago given up on this type of crap. Its always a let down. If I want to see a horror movie I'll watch Invasion of the Body Snatchers or Them! If I want to watch porn, (and I frequently do) then I'll watch porn. At least the porn producers are artistically honest.

For the record, to any legit adult producer that's listening, I don't mind if the girl is blindfolded and gagged, but I don't like hoods or masks. And at some point I want to see the model's eyes.

Happy Gimping!

(Just look at some of the video samples at the link above - the green text below the cover images - avoid the groups of 3 covers - just the green buttons below the costume heroine images- these models really emote...)

I'd have to see some serious emoting as the mask was being put on (slowly, of course) to stress the dehumanizing, suffocating effect of the mask- I'd at least like to see the eyes. Or try this- put the mask on- then show a shadowed view of the eyes- (as if we're peering behind the mask) looking very worried (or pained, etc.) Sure, a bit cheesy- but it might work.

Of course, it's best to show her face the whole time. If you had to use a mask- I'd make it the last thing you did in the scene.

Lastly, here is something to try when your talent cannot act: use physical acting tips, not emotional ones.

Instead of saying"...look worried- that needle is huge..." Tell her: "pretend that you have sinus problems and are about to have a sneezing fit-" OR "pretend like you need to scratch your nose or forehead- but you can't- and it's driving you nuts...plus you have some dust in your eyes..."

Both examples are pretty easy to imagine for most people- and aren't that hard to act out- yet, in the context of a torture scene- looks like you're a pretty mean guy, ya' know?

-my two cents -Xenonex (the FX dude)

Your last post actually LOST viewers. Way to go!!!!!

Covering her face would make it no better then F****ing and torturing a flexible rubber dummy. But she must have an OVER size gag FULLY in her mouth ie: 3 inch penis gag or an over large ball gag.

I'd never been to that Peachy Keen website before. At least one of the stills there showed a gagged naked woman being terrorized. Does he incorporate a lot of bondage into his films? Other than actual bondage films, the horror genre is your best bet to see women in erotic distress.

Just have to chime in on this new poll.

Personally, for me, I have to see the girl's face to see if she's pretty! Especially, because Im a total gag fanatic.

So, to answer the qeustion, NO, I wouldn't rent or buy the movie, without seeing what the girl looks like!

Love the pic! Cant wait till this coming Friday. I've waited months to see Hostel 2.

As you might guess from my pictures, especially the one posted today, I think that the expression is essential. A face, the eyes in particular, can express so much. Fear, distress, pain, surprise and of course excitment as well. A hood takes away much of that. I do undertand the people obsessed with hoods, there is a serious fetish around it. It deals with being able to control the victim totally and it turns a lot of people on. I also know a lot of people being turned on by being in such a situation themselves, being controlled in a way that also influences their ability to see, speak, hear and even breathe. But from my point of view: no hood. A gag and a blindfold when the situation is right, otherwise not even that.

In regard to this movie, BREAKING HER WILL is not about a girl in a mask. When I was reading the story about the girl in the box, I was inspired to write a story path in which the abductor would use a sort of sensory deprivation technique to keep the victim constantly disoriented. If I used a box over her head it would be stealing an idea from a real life story, and I wouldn't do that anyway because of the different storyline I am using. But even if this movie were true to the story you all seem so familiar with, you would see a woman with a box on her head. Don't tell me you would boycott the movie for that. You're silly. Again, I have not started to flesh out the script, but from what I remember, the use of a leather mask satisfies two things. It is appealing to the villain, and it seals off any sensations of touch or light in the victim. That is only a stage of her torture. She is eventually released from the mask.

I would prefer to make the movie as a high drama, choosing great actresses, and by that I mean trained actresses, not scream queens. I would shoot it in the suspenseful style which leaves much of the actions in the viewer's imagination. But there is a part of me that wants to make the movie visually extreme, and I am able to do that because I am an indie moviemaker who does not need to worry about MPAA ratings or mainstream distribution, choosing instead to be supported by extreme vendors like www.xploitedcinema.com . By the way, I don't exalt the status of "indie" and I don't wear it like a badge. I am just making a distinction. A lot of independent moviemakers follow the same rules as the major players, and I think it's foolish. We can never match the beauty and quality of a major budget movie, so we should deliver what Hollywood can't - CONTENT (visual or story-wise). Anyway, returning to the idea to make it visually extreme, making it graphic would balance out the cheese if I choose to use non-actors.

You are probably going to hate the movie because it's a movie and not a bondage flick. The villain does things that the character is motivated to do, not things that are required in a bondage movie. I have to satisfy the rules of the character, not your rules. Do I sell my movies in sex shops? No. well, TLA sells my movies but they also sell a lot of non-adult titles, so I am not really part of that world.

When I made JESUS CHRIST: SERIAL RAPIST, it was an experiment that I indulged. What if I made a movie that had no narrative quality? I noticed that some movies, like Seven or Silence of the Lambs concentrated more on the police story rather than the killer, and even when there was a movie that focused on the killer, like Bundy, the actual brutal acts were something of an afterthought. What if I made a movie that was nothing but the killer during his brutal moments? I filmed the whole thing without dialogue, and I filmed it in slow motion to show the altered state. I beat someone up pretty bad, and I remember the fight in slow motion. So I liked the idea of time altering, or being misperceived, by the killer in the movie. Before I continue, I would just like to make it clear that I am in no way saying that I am cool or that my ideas are brilliant. I am just trying things out. Well, when the movie came out on DVD it was mercilessly criticized by many different types of reviewers - it wasn't just one crowd. But a few months later, I started getting a lot of handwritten letters, BEGGING me to do something similar. It is my best-selling title. And I am still getting tons of mail. So the movie is hated by you, but intensely loved by a huge amount of people. If I had made a poll before releasing that movie and went by your opinions, I would have missed out on the impact I made upon so many people.

When I released RAPE IS A CIRCLE, it barely sold for several months, and reviews were harsh. Suddenly it clicked with certain people and now it competes with JCSR for sales.

FRANKENSTEIN THE RAPIST will be just as weird as JCSR, but it has some dialogue, and I chose to do some gore. Sativa Verte gets her throat slashed and she bleeds to death while thrashing and then weakly crawling away from the monster. Presently there are over 50 pictures of her death scene on my site, but those pics are part of the naughty gallery - you have to be a premium member to see those pics, as well as the 500 others. In a couple of weeks I will have 50 more pics of Sativa, but in non-bloody bondage. She is an amazing person to work with. I still have several victims to shoot, all of whom are new faces. So I want to work with them prior to making a final casting decision for BREAKING HER WILL.

Again, BREAKING HER WILL is not about Colleen. It was just partially inspired by Colleen's experiences. And even if I choose to make it a graphic movie, you are going to hate it. I guarantee it. But you have hundreds, if not thousands, of DVD's that cater to your tastes. Stick with those.

I can think of all kinds of mainstream movies -- from A Clockwork Orange to the "Ginger" movies to Zero Woman: Red Handcuffs -- that are not "bondage" movies, yet are loved by GIMPers. When Bill Zebub suggests that GIMPers don't like scenes of peril unless they occur in a bondage flick, he's really just showing his ignorance.

He's right that GIMPers probably won't like his "Colleen" movie, but not for the reasons he suggests. If the past is any guide, it's likely GIMPers won't like his film because it will look like cheap art-house crap, with no real sense that the victim is in peril.

Actually, at this point, I'm more interested in the Frankenstein movie. I can't see how anyone could shoot a scene like the one described with Sativa Verte that doesn't succeed on some level. If Bill Zebub does blow it, that will be quite revealing.

After long time and after xxxratedgroups do not exist anymore, I'm trying to reopen the fpowt-group in yahoo. It's new name is now "fspyt". The topic is known to "oldtimers" and of course near to the topic of this very forum here.

You are all welcome to join.

Not to can see the face of the tortured girl? Noway!! That's exactly the point, I mean, to can see the face-expressions of the victim. To see her suffering, crying, beging for mercy.

Otherwise,...no, thanks. ;-)

And I'm getting more confused. You're doing a film about "breaking the will" of an abducted woman, and you tell us we'll hate it? Aside from the non-bondage movie argument, the mask controversy, and that it's not the real Colleen Stan story, why will we hate it? I guess the easier question is: Will this bizarre horror/fucked-up/anti-horror/high drama movie have any scenes of Girls in Merciless Peril, like the ones you mentioned to Ralphus?!

And if there are, you really need to work on your marketing skills.

But even if this movie were true to the story you all seem so familiar with, you would see a woman with a box on her head. Don't tell me you would boycott the movie for that. You're silly. Again, I have not started to flesh out the script, but from what I remember, the use of a leather mask satisfies two things. It is appealing to the villain, and it seals off any sensations of touch or light in the victim.

We're not silly, but you're apparently either clueless or have a very bad memory. Try reading the story of what happened to Colleen Stan again. She wore the headbox only when the villain, Richard Hooker, left her alone. The box he had her wear was not appealing to him. Yes, he used it to cut off her sight and sensations and to be extra cruel, but the guy wasn't stupid. When he tortured her and used her, he was smart enough to take the box off so he could enjoy her pain and suffering.

The way you wrote your synopsis, she's wearing a leather mask all throughout the entire first half of the movie. She's tied up and tortured repeatedly but the villain never gets to see her face (and neither do we). He's in control, and yet he's going to deliberately deprive himself of seeing his prey's reactions? Logically, it makes no sense, and it certainly makes no sense if you're going to make it into a movie and expect anyone to identify with either the villain or the victim. You're sabotaging any sense of dramatic tension if you film a movie like that and keep her face covered up. It's a potentially great scenario totally ruined by a severe loss of common sense on the part of the writer/director. And that would be you I'm talking about.

The people who read this forum are not just bondage freaks. We are real people who enjoy a wide variety of movies and other forms of art. You severely underestimate us when you say if you make a graphic movie, that we are going to hate it simply because it's not a bondage flick. Talk about your clueless assumptions!

Make it graphic, make it real and it could be a masterpiece that could get you plenty of sales, primarily from bondage fans, no matter how much disdain you may have for us. Like it or not, we are the people who would be the ones supporting you and buying your movie. But if you make a mistake and cover up the face during all the good parts, you're just cutting your own throat. If you don't want the character to see, change her leather mask into a blindfold. That's not such a big deal, is it? At least then you're not totally depriving the villain, and the audience, of the joy of seeing some genuine distress. Which is what your movie is about in the first place. It's a total no-brainer. It's hard for me to believe that you still can't understand that.

An Open Letter To Bill Zebub - Bill, mi amigo, I am the last to criticize anything you might do as I know nothing about making a movie. Well, I do know it is difficult and costly at any level but nothing else. I would hope you will read this and accept it in the spirit in which it is written.

I have seen a number of your movies, some of which have been OK, some of which have been not OK. Even in those which I see as not OK, the concept, the idea, the vision in which they were done was always good. The problem, IMHO, was in the execution - the translation onto the screen, if you will. This concept, however, seems to be non-Gimp from the start.

It seems you now wish to make a psychological thriller. There is nothing wrong with that and I say go for it and the best of luck. There is not likely to be much enthusiasm from most Gimpers for that. The audience, the appeal and the market will not be here nor at many of the other sites that harbor sick twisted perverts like us. Yes, we want to see the agony, the torment, the harm as seen through the face, the tunnels to the soul.

Still, if your goal is to make a "Goddam, that was some fucked up movie", then have at it. I'm still waiting for you to tackle a "Glatman" movie. Then you know where the market is - right here.

Stay Well Bill

Bill, for God's sake, just have a hot chick in a scary situation, have nudity, and make it brutal. That is what we are into. . . pretty much horror films, but with more overtly sexualized violence. Realism is good. Suspenseful pacing is good. Terror is good. Slow motion is bad. There are certainly iconography of "fetishiness" that some people associate with bondage (gear can be cool, but give me a hot bitch tied up with a telephone cord and I'll be fine), and that stuff can be cool, but a lot of the folks here are into fantasies about terror and pain just as much as we are into "bondage movies." "Our kind of thing" is scary horror with hot chicks. Hell, some of our favorite shit isn't necessarily even terribly explicit (like "Spine," which was the subject of much fond reminiscence recently). A lot of us like a wide variety of trash cinema.

For a demo of the direction I think you should go, check out Toe Tag Productions or some of Eric Stanze's movies ("Scrapbook" is the artistic pinnacle of the genre you are planning to dip your toes in). That stuff is too intense and gross to be that arousing, but the tone of those films is what I think you oughta go for.

POLL: Would I buy/rent a movie with bound girl where I was prevented from seeing her face? Well, not with those fullhead leather helmet things...cause I don't care for those...not my thing. But other than that, I don't know, depends on movie. What if Blakemore came out of retirement and did one, and had this hot bodied girl with a black cloth covering (like a small pillowcase) over her head, and he does his HOM stuff to her, and at the end, he pulls off the pillowcase and turns out it's: Halle Berry (or Carmen Electra, or Pamela Anderson). Yeah, maybe I'd buy/rent that movie!

Sorry for my disappearance of late, but I've been extremely busy.

Anyway, regarding the poll here on the GIMP, subject being: "Would you buy or rent a movie that features an otherwise beautiful victim being bound, raped and tortured, even if you are prevented from seeing her face?"

Alas, I must say no. I asked Isaac's opinion on this one and he concurred. Some people are tits and ass fans, but I for one need to see the face as well. For one thing, you can't see the expression if you can't see the face. The facial expressions, the eyes, are what draw you into the victim, into the scene, at least in my opinion. (Isaac probably just wants to make sure the chick is hot...)

Actually, I sort of care if the girl/woman has a pretty face as well. Is it stupid, vain, or just plain petty, but does one actually feel more pity for a prettier victim? I know you certainly feel more arousal, but I'm not bisexual and I still prefer to see a pretty face. Like all women, I appreciate a beautiful woman and stare at women I find drop-dead gorgeous.

Okay, I'm going off topic here. Bottom line: I want to see the victim's face. Would that prevent me from renting a flick? Maybe not, but I wouldn't buy it. :)

Natasha

I don't think John has done any bondage other than tying girls to poles for "firing squad" films. I posted about PK because John does very intense films, but gets amazing acting from his staff.

Ralphus: And [Bill] reads this board and I'm sure he would value some feedback.

And if Bill had just posted back that he already had the scene firmly in mind and appreciated the feedback but it wouldn't matter in this movie -- no problem. It was only AFTER so much negative comment that Bill said that he didn't care for our opinion. If that's the case, don't advertise your piss-ant "indie" (ie. crap) movie here.

Scribbler: It's his movie, he should do what he wants.

It sure is, but he seemed to be OK with Ralphus taking a poll. Any bets that if the poll had gone his way, he wouldn't be moaning "You don't understand!" Boo fricking hoo.

To jhlipton: a) I had the same message with my last post too. b) I think we're of the same mind in regards to Zebub.

To Sloth: nobody would like to see the Glatman story more that me, but if its going to be done than either do it straight, ala "In Cold Blood" or "The Boston Strangler" (both Robert Blake and Tony Curtis would have been good as old Harvey by the way, but they're too old now. Maybe Kevin Spacey?) or else somebody call Rick Masters. He'd do it justice!

To Natasha Flade: some beautiful women can only see their own beauty. You are a very special lady. Isaac's a lucky guy!

To Ralphus: I am really sorry if some of us seem to be getting so pissed about this poll. But there's more to this than just the question of whether or not we like a mask on our victim. We're being taken for granted as just a bunch of perverts to be exploited. Well maybe we are just a bunch of perverts, (I know I am! :) ) but we take this seriously and deserve some respect.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter.

Happy Gimping!

Just wanted to let A Canadian, and anyone else who cares, know that The Beyond Driven series will probably not be out till August or September. My apologies, that's just the way it worked out, but it is coming. I'm working on the Machine Head series at the moment.

The Poll: I like to see a woman's face, but maybe Bill has a different creative vision. I have an idea for Bill's next movie. Have everyone in burqas ...that could be your gimmick. Call it Rape is a BURQA (rimshot).

Natasha: Great to see your post, you are always well spoken and insightful. I'm a big fan of your work!

Rick

Dreambook problem: Yeah, I get it every time, too. I notified Dreambook weeks ago, and as usual, they haven't done a damn thing. They do have a reputation for sucking, after all. I'll drop them another e-mail so I can enjoy another automated reply.

Zebub poll: I told him I was going to run a poll about his new movie beforehand and at the time, he thanked me. Maybe it was the overwhelming response that told him we were right and he was wrong that turned him sour against the group. I'll be the first one to say that I'm surprised about his response, since he was eager to tell us about his movie based on the Girl in the Box case late last year and seemed very responsive to what we had to say when we offered suggestions at that time.

Maybe it was too much negativity about his work on this forum that changed things. After all, aside from the initial praise he got around here when Scream Queen came out, most of the talk about his later work has been that it was largely disappointing. Maybe he finally just said enough is enough and blew us off, saying we were going to hate it no matter what he did. The thing is, we wouldn't. If he makes a realistic story based on the Colleen Stan case, it's the exact kind of movie that our readers would buy, and probably enjoy a great deal. It was his misguided idea that her face should be covered up over the entire first half of the movie that people were going to hate, so I was trying to show him how his core audience felt about it before he filmed the darn thing.

And while I'm here, I want to apologize to Bill about the cheap shot drug reference I made earlier. It was out of line and unfair, and I'm sorry. The thing is, I like Bill and always enjoyed talking to him online about things. I wouldn't have started the poll if I had known he would respond so negatively and think we were picking on him. He has the potential to do great things, and I said that from the very beginning.

Natasha Flade and Rick Masters: Always a pleasure to hear from both of you. Thanks for your input.

For me at least, the eyes are often the most important feature on a woman. Big pretty eyes and long lashes give a better "please help me" look, especially if she's got a big ballgag stuffed in her mouth. So yeah, I have more pity for a pretty woman than a plain-looking one in a bondage flick, but that certainly does not mean I want the torment to end. :-)

Machine Head series: Amy van Allen on DVD? Now there's a pair of pretty eyes.

I've recently heard about a decision made by a group of banks, not to support purchasing of adult-stuff from pay-sites. I can't tell definitely, if the adult material is beeing divided to "normal" and "abnormal". And it's a big question what's the meaning of "normal". But don't be dreaming, pals, our fantasies should belong to the abnormal-stuff for those people out there .

That's why I get a dozen of groups deleted till now. (;-)).

Have you maybe heard something about that too? Till now I knew only 1 billing company that doesn't support sites containing nudity. But that's all.

I would be glad if I could be informed by someone here. But if it's true we can be sure that it is a perfect world we're living in!!! This last problem has found it's solution. If only we could have been disappeared too! Oh boy, so much pretense in life!!!

Hoods and blindfolds are great for storing or transporting a victim, but I want to see that terror and hear those whimpers. It seems to me that is why rape scenes in mainstream movies that only show the victim's face work far better than a silhouette. Although, the sounds can make the difference. A shot of just feet with the proper sounds can work well. No face and no sounds equals no stimuli.

Bill Zebub: As a writer, I understand the concept of leaving things to the imagination. That's why I'll probably never write a sequel to "Dog Eat Dog". There is no way I could write anything that would live up to the things people have imagined. The problem, however, with Bill's style, as I see it (Having only seen Rape is a Circle which I rented from Netflix) is that he leaves too much to the imagination. My imagination is better than most, but if I am going to have to imagine all the best parts of a movie, I might as well just imagine the whole movie. That's where my stories come from. Mainstream movies can have very hot off-screen rapes and mayhem only because they sell the emotion and degradation on-screen before and after the off-screen bit, and that requires exceptional writing, directing, and acting.

Jefferson

Stay Well All

jhlipton: Excellent point on the impressive number of responses to the poll. You know, some people (including me) have questioned Bill Zebub's marketing skills, but he's had us talking for three days straight about his upcoming movie. To be frank, I suspect he knows a lot more about marketing than we give him credit for.

Natasha Flade: I don't actually have a response to your post, other than to say that I am also glad to see you back.

Would you buy or rent a movie that features an otherwise beautiful victim being bound, raped and tortured, even if you are prevented from seeing her face?

I would not say NO, but I want to see her face. I want to look into her eyes when she sees what is going to happen to her. I want to imagine that she is looking at me. Pretty simple, really.

When I tie up my girl before doing her, I don't put a bag over her head. I love seeing the look in her eyes AFTER she is helpless but BEFORE I have done anything.

There is always a hesitation, a fear, a worry. That look is priceless.

In any case, the BREAKING HER WILL movie is not the Colleen story, and it's not the about the guy who victimized Colleen. I only read about her story to see if I could identify stages in her adaptation. I won't be spoiling anything by giving this away (because no one on here is going to see the movie), but the main female victim is a contrast to female victim who comes in later in the movie. The first victim adapts to her circumstances. The second one fights all the way through.

My problem is that whatever I wrote in the synopsis looks good on paper, but it's going to be very hard to execute, especially if I use scream queens instead of trained actresses. I'm not referring to a girl acting tormented. I'm worried about the more dramatic parts. I guess the worst case scenario would be that I shoot the movie with scream queens and opt for a more visceral approach, and after I get a return on my investment I can cast the movie again, this time with trained actresses, and I can show them the earlier version so they know how safe it is.

I have met Fred from Toe Tag. I am in a documentary with him called S&Man. His webmaster gave me some of the August Underground movies, but I couldn't get into them. I'm not saying they sucked. It's just not something that I like to watch. He's got a very loyal following. He's also a very nice guy. I haven't really experimented with gore in any serious way, but I brought up the subject with him and he shared some of his ideas and approaches. I also talked with a guy who is the complete opposite of him, a guy who only cares about tension and who doesn't see a point in showing anything. Well, I saw the movie HARD CANDY and that movie showed nothing, but it made me cringe at times and it also made me feel very uneasy, so there's something valid about choosing the way of tension over the visceral. I'm not like those directors. Neither of those paths are important to me. I'm still chasing the weirdest ways to be.

I didn't mean to appear dismissive. I like to hear opinions, but I only like to hear them form a research perspective. For instance, when I hear that certain people like to see how tight the rope is, I intentionally make the ropes loose or unrealistic. Why? Because I need the focus to be on something else. If you can't handle the ropes being loose, then you should be watching a hardcore bondage movie, not one of my movies. But there may come the time when a character in the movie has tastes like that. That could be a funny bit of dialogue to the general public. Like if there are two characters watching softcore, one of the guys would be pissed off staring at the screen. He'd then voice his criticism to the guy who has more normal tastes, and that could lead to great comedy. Same thing with your preference for seeing a girl's face during torment. It's ludicrous. The scene is not supposed to turn you on. And yet you are mad about your dicks going soft. When you describe what you need to get aroused, I use that information in the opposite way. That's why I warned that you are not going to like the movie. You're helping me make sure that the scenes are going to be extreme, but not in an erotic way. I know that might sound insulting, but I assure you that I am thanking you, not mocking you. You help me put safeguards into place. You help me to see boundaries and edges.

If, when the movie is done, he posts here again, saying something like "I realized you fine gentlemen (and occasional lady) were right. Ms X will NOT be wearing a full mask except during transport. The rest of the time, she'll only sport a good-size gag on her lovely face.", then, yeah, I'd say he was a marketing GENIUIS.

I ain't holding my breath!

Ralphus note: I have not put in any "refs" to my favored site:)

Bill Zebub wrote: When you describe what you need to get aroused, I use that information in the opposite way.

Well, what really turns me on are fat ugly actresses, loose ropes, totally wussy tortures, slow-motion scenes, and full hoods throughout a movie. Hope that helps you form a "research perspective."

I'm still chasing the weirdest ways to be.

I think you are already there.

Let's make it simple. The audience wants a GOOD movie. So therefore, Bill will deliver a BAD one. I would say he's well on his way toward achieving that goal.

Again, please don't take what I am about to write personally. I don't want you to be aroused. Get it? I am trying to tell a story, not trying to get you to jerk off. That's the reason why I saying that you shouldn't buy it. It will piss you off. When you complain about the mask, you are helping me because I know that during those scenes, if the acting is good, you may actually start to have empathy for the victim - the things that get you excited aren't there, and if you aren't distracted by erotic stimuli, you might get the point of the scene - to empathize. Of course, being that I am an indie movie maker, my attempts may fail, and that is another reason why I predict that you would not like it. But whether the movie comes out good or bad, I am going to gain new skills and new awareness.

So it's not pointless for you to tell me what you like or hate about a particular aspect, like a mask versus a blindfold. In this movie, I am using the info to avoid making the scenes erotic. But if I have a character who is supposed to be from your realm of taste, then I would have the character do most of the things you suggest. The character in BREAKING HER WILL is not such a person. But when I make a movie called "I TOLD YOU NOT TO CALL THE POLICE" I might explore these paths.

Also, I am very sorry if I appear to be doing things to piss you off. Yes, some of you buy my movies, but you are only a portion of the many types of people who take a chance on my stuff. But even if you were the 90% block, I can't make something that targets a particular audience. The most I can do is to identify my boundaries and to work inside those. If I wanted mainstream distribution for BREAKING HER WILL, those boundaries would be suffocating me. Right now I am free. I guess the best way to put it is, I am going to make thousands of DVD's, throw them up in the air, and see where they fall. Maybe one will land in your lap.

Um, Zee-ef-ex....

Kristara Barrington? In bondage? Where? When? What movie????

That's a must see.

If only Mai Lin had done some rough stuff as well.

S

The solution came to me while I was reading Bill Zebub's comments about the different audiences. Why not shoot extra footage and release more than one version?

One could be called the the director's cut. It could have all the head-in-the-box stuff and all those scenes that are supposed to make people empathize with the victim. The other version could be called the Special Ralphus Edition. It would have a number of scenes where we see the victim's face, and lots of exploitation.

This way, everybody's happy. Damn, I'm good.

Meanwhile, to answer the question posed by Paulus, the reason we have spent so much discussion time on this is because many of us think Bill Zebub has potential. I mean, any guy who uses "rape" in a movie title as often as he has (even referring to Jesus as a rapist) must have a little bit of GIMP spirit lurking inside him somewhere.

Final note on Brutus's post: that was hilarious.

Head covered? Only if doing so is directly relevant to the theme. Example, captured terrorist scum, one of the lowlifes of the earth, someone who talks a good game about God whilst wouldn't actually know God if God bit her on her ass, strapped with suicide bomb belt going to do something despicable and ungodly like killing little children or other innocent people.

Or, any similar hot chick who stupidly supports such terrorist vermin.

Her? Hell, I'd pay money to watch an entire bondage flick where her head was cut off of her body the whole flick, much less covered with a box or a hood or something. :-)

So as I said, it's got to match the movie's overall theme.

Kristara Barrington? Sorry, I didn't save any titles, or any copies. She was in several bondage fliks, some really good ones. When I was watching video tapes featuring such great scenes from the 80s, little did I know I was witnessing a golden age of porn and should have been buying or otherwise saving copies. At the time I just rented 'em and returned 'em.

zee-ef-ex

I get turned on by cruelty and fear. Some other BDSM type fan might get turned on by degradation or depersonalization (that box on the head trick is bound to give SOMEBODY a boner). Somebody else might get excited by the aesthetics of bondage. Scat or extreme gore would turn off my horny receptors, but other people would be excited as all hell to see a girl get shitted on. The only way to avoid turning somebody on is to make a really limp, silly movie. (The kind where you deliberately leave the ropes tied loosely to frustrate any potential excitement.) Or you might minimize the kink by making a really extreme realistic one (like "Scrapbook"). I'm not sure you'd need to research what we like to jerk off to figure out either of those approaches. So what the hell is going on around here?

I forgot he was in S&Mman, or however the hell you spell it. I really want to see that. It's kind of a primer on extreme horror, and the pseudo snuff genre.

I'm not trying to be critical of Bill. . .I like trashy movies whether they turn me on or not. . . but I'm just plain confused, and mildly disappointed. Is Bill trying to be an antiseptic answer to Lloyd Kauffman? Is Bill real, or is he secretly Sasha Baron Cohen?

The reason I called this movie the "anti-horror" movie was because I was going to have the point of view shots the other way - you are going to see through the victim's eyes. I wanted to know what the sexually-aberrant crowd found erotic so that I could avoid that. I wanted to make the scenes horrific, not erotic. But I found out, thanks to one of the posts on here, that such an attempt would be futile. And if the acting isn't superb, then you are going to be taken out of the movie and just see a really hot girl acting badly and you won't get the experience I was trying to give you.

So I have to thank you. I was looking for totally different data but I got a much better lesson taught to me.

I started fleshing out the script. I am now only focusing on making a good story - if you get turned on, you get turned on. If a viewer walks away from the movie pondering the deeper stuff, then I will be very happy, but I can't write a movie purely for that reason. I make the rollercoaster, and you take the ride (or choose not to take the ride).

Knowing what I know now takes a LOT of the stress out of this. And yes, when you see the girl in a mask it's because the story calls for it. I'm casting a guy who is tall, lanky, and by most standards, dorky. He reminds me a bit of the villain from Hard Candy. Hopefully Sativa Verte will accept the role of the primary victim. And the entire movie is going to be shot in slow motion. (just kidding)

Much like the situation you described, it will be at least a week before I am able to see the movie.

It's not as if we're giving him the money to make it.

And the movie he's making is inspired by a true story not a docudrama. So it's not as if he's remaking "All The President's Men" starring Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker as Woodward and Bernstein.

One question I do have though. If this actress can't act, which is why you're using a full face mask, why not just use use a blowup doll? She'd work even cheaper.

I just have one question. Did you realize that it's incredibly rude to use people by using them as a template for what to avoid? You have to realize that the people who post to and read this board might well have perverted ideas, but we are all very much individuals. For example, my idea of the perfect film might have some Lloyd Kaufman involved, but also has plenty of Fassbinder, Jarmusch and White (as in, the guy who did all the Three Stooges movies). I'm going to assume that your feelings are hurt, and that's why you're lashing out here, but many more people read here than post, and, like it or not, lots of those are going to be your market. And if you make a good movie, stress on the word GOOD, you will get a good review here or, at worst, a nod for doing something that works on its own terms.

Please don't ever apologize for what you do that works, but at the same time, don't make excuses for what you know didn't.

Our friend Bill Zebub might also be interested to see that there is at least one scene where there is a leather hood over Ayumu's face: Ayumu.

Alright folks, step right up. I can't quite believe that I'm getting in first, but here it is. The official 100% #1 GIMP approved review of the latest Eli Roth film 'Hostel II'. We've waited, we've speculated, we've even slagged it off in anticipation. But I'm here to tell you, there's more to this film (and less ...) than meets the mind's eye. This could take a while, so buckle up.

Now, first things first. I don't think much of Mr Roth. I'm sure that in the right bar at the right time, he'd be a hell of a guy, but really... The thing most of us probably know him for is the commentary on the DVD of Blood Sucking Freaks. Yep, the greatest movie ever, and this turkey treats it like a joke. Like something that you can snicker along with your buddys to at the latest kegger. Alright, that's probably true, but in the case of this movie, that particular attitude is going to come back and haunt him.

Folks, everybody reading this board is either a GIMPer, or somebody trying to make money off GIMPers. And I have news for you. Don't, under ANY circumstances, see this movie among children. And by children, I mean late teens and early twenties folk - you know the type ... they laugh because they don't know how to relate to a movie that is epic in style and substance. Girl gets her face cut off ... laugh. Guy gets his dick cut off ... laugh. No, please, I implore you all. Go to the cinema that is the least 'hip' in your town. The one that no teenager/guy in a hoodie will ever be caught dead in. That's the place to see this movie.

Now that that's settled. You want to know, what's the movie like. Well, as the Bishop said to the Actress, there's good news, and there's bad news. Let's start with the bad news. There is probably, out of roughly 90 minutes of screen time (It's hard to judge, with all the adverts for ice creams and other horrible movies), there is probably eight minutes of GIMP worthy action in total. The rest is only interesting if you have a particular fetish for that style of post-modern film making in which everything is funny just because it's referencing something else. (Digression - there are at least two MAJOR Borat jokes in the movie, that I counted - the first one is that one of the chicks calls a character 'Borat' because he's a ... get this ... a FOREIGNER ... and the second is that one of the main villains is called Sacha [ie Borat's real name]. You know what - I saw Borat, and don't appreciate the reference. It's a cop out for a cheap laugh. Like most of this movie.)

If you want to go into a slasher/horror movie with no idea of what's contained in it, like I did, skip the rest of this. If, on the other hand, you want to know whether you will 'get yer rocks off' to some mainstream cinema, well ...hold on tight. What can I say. This movie is a good (ie average/middle of the road/I didn't walk out) slasher flick. If you like that sort of thing, you'll get excited. Sadly enough, that's just what most of the audience who were present for my viewing experience did (see my above advice re avoiding teenagers). I don't understand, and will never understand, what inspires a person to bring their girlfriend (yes, their fucking GIRLFRIEND) to a movie like this. It defies logic, and defies my powers of deduction. However - guarantee you - IF you take a girl to this movie for your first date, she'll never forget you. Unfortunately, she might never forgive you either, but that's how it goes, sometimes.

(listens to the audience saying 'get to the FUCKING POINT already'). Alright, alright. I know. What makes me drop ten dollars on a stupid slasher movie? Here goes.

IF ... you like intimations of a lesbian relationship between one of the honeys and one of the evil parties ... then this might be your movie (for about seven minutes of essentially PG rated fare.)

IF ... you like to see four minutes worth of a woman slashing another woman for the pleasure of bathing in her blood ala Countess Bathory ... then this might be your movie (or at least, your DVD rental).

IF ... you don't mind sitting through an hour of bullshit to get to the point of a slasher movie, and then have all your predictions from minute #1 come true to the point of ridiculousness ... then this is certainly your movie (and remember, I'm hardly a genius, and I picked all but 1 of the 'twists').

and ... IF you can handle the politically expedient vision of men being cut up/tortured/etc interspersed with the real meat of the movie (just so nobody can accuse the filmakers of being misogynist), then this might just be for you.

Bottom line ... this is not a movie for GIMPs, but might be a movie for gimps. The highlight of the whole experience for me was the quite attractive pair of girls sitting next to me, one of whom was laughing through the whole thing, the other of which was looking absolutely disgusted. I don't know why I thought that was so fitting, but it certainly was.

Gradings:

as a GIMP film - C (but wait for the DVD rental, folks).
as an artistic statement - B (yep, even our own Bill Zebub could learn a thing or two about pretension from this one)
as a general film - C (I was not scared for a single second of the movie, but I didn't feel like walking out, either).

I have no advice beyond what I've written above. I went in expecting the worst and hoping for the best, and came out scratching my head, wondering why regular people would want to see it. I would have thought that this sort of movie would ONLY appeal to GIMPers (and even then, not hugely). Obviously my finger is as far from the pulse of movie making as it is on anything else.

You'll notice that I've written a long review without giving much away. Well, I could outline every plot 'twist', but really, that would be missing the point. This movie is bloody to the point of absurdity. The characters have motivations that change faster than the weather, and not a lot of it makes sense. It's really not meant to. MY advice ... wait for the DVD (Lord knows that there were ten or fifteen minutes that I would have traded my soul for a fast forward button). Of course, if you're reading this, you'll want to see it on the big screen. If it's possible to arrange a screening JUST open to perverts, I think you'll have a good time. Otherwise ... Cringe City.

What I want to know is...did you happen to take a picture of the two quite attractive girls that were sitting next to you? I know it might have been awkward in a darkened theater, but we have the technology now.

At any rate, I've already committed myself to a trip to the movies on Sunday afternoon (my only off-day of the week) and sadistic little guy that I am, I do intend to bring a date. I'm going to force Aria to sit next to me and keep me company, and maybe hook up some sort of shock device to her underneath her clothes to amuse me during the slow parts of the movie. Plus hopefully the plot will give me ideas on what to do to her next.

Okay guys, we're on the eve on the big premiere. How many of you intend to see Hostel Part 2 this weekend?

Above is an early review.

However, even if the option did exist, I'm not sure I would go. Certainly, the film didn't get an enthusiastic endorsement from mothbrad. Even allowing for the obvious questions about mothbrad's focus on his review (just how much of a distraction were the two attractive girls sitting beside him?), I am still prepared to accept his recommendation to wait for the DVD. Unless I hear otherwise, I don't think this one merits a trip to the theatre.

I didn't get a photo of the two chicks sitting next to me, but they didn't distract me as much as the four nineteen year old jocks sitting on my other side, who were laughing at all the wrong moments, and generally acting like nineteen year old jocks.

Oh, Ralphus, I know you're a sadist, but I think Aria will suffer enough through the hour long set up scene. On the other hand, you'll have a heck of a time!

All together now: DREAMBOOK SUCKS!!

You could also check out the Mainstream portion of our Reviews section above. There are quite a few rental suggestions there.

Apologies to everyone who tried posting today and got shut out by Dreambook's technical problems. We ended up losing several posts for a few hours, but I was able to restore what I could (thank God for e-mail backups). It's just Reason # 174 of Why Dreambook Sucks. Fortunately, the problems appear to be fixed at this time.

Canadian, when will you grace our fair city? I doubt we'll be able to meet up (it sounds like you're going to be "tied up" while here), but maybe next time.

Bill. . . yep. A scary movie is going to turn some of us on. A movie from the perspective of the victim is going to turn some of us on. I for example, might find it kinda exciting to see the world from the viewpoint of a terrified hottie. A scary bad guy threatening the camera sounds kinda cool. . . . Avoiding the cliches of the "voyerism/stalk/slash" is a good idea, but that don't mean it ain't gonna work as porno for somebody. Violence will always turn on somebody. For me, the hottest scene in the world is Monica Bellucci getting raped in "Irreversible." That scene is fucking HARD TO WATCH. It's a dramatization of an awful, awful sin. I almost threw up the first time I saw it, and I haven't changed the way I feel about it. But it gives me a hard on every time. Just make the movie you want to make, and let the chips fall where they may. Don't try to be so clever.

As for Hostel 2, fuck yeah. I like scary horror. I like nasty Gimp. I like gonzo bad movies. I like Eli Roth. It's bound to be some combination of those four things. Sign me up. If we support Eli Roth, maybe he'll get a chance to make "Thanksgiving" a feature.

Great, a new poll! I was getting sick of the misadventures of Bill Zebub. Anyway, I'm not much of a movie goer. The last time I paid for a ticket was when I saw Braveheart!

That being said, I don't believe that Hostel Part II is my cup of tea. Oh sure, there are a number intriguing scenes that will make it worth a rental, but I'm not big on gore. Why mess up a pretty girl like that. I mean its neat to kidnap her, tear off her clothes, tie her up, stuff a gag (or something else :) ) in her mouth, rape her, clamp her nipples, rape her, ("You said rape twice." "I like rape". - Blazing Saddles) beat her, electro torture her, etc etc., but cool it on the blood. Too hard to get the blood stains out of your trunk. If you want to off her, just strangle the little bitch and dump her in the desert.

By the way just as an aside that has nothing to do with the poll, does anybody remember a scene in South of the Border V where a pretty naked blond is hogtied on a cement floor, all dirty and looking the worse for wear? (What's the models name Ralphus? I forget). Now THAT'S entertainment!

Happy Gimping!

By the way just as an aside that has nothing to do with the poll, does anybody remember a scene in South of the Border V where a pretty naked blond is hogtied on a cement floor, all dirty and looking the worse for wear? (What's the models name Ralphus? I forget).

Would have been easy enough for you to just check the Reviews section, where I mention that scene in my review, but then I wouldn't have an excuse to post these stills, would I?

Here's the lovely Christina Anderson, dirty and hogtied in South of the Border 5:

http://youtied.com/gimp/border67.jpg

http://youtied.com/gimp/border68.jpg

http://youtied.com/gimp/border69.jpg

http://youtied.com/gimp/border70.jpg

As per the poll question I'll probably wait for the dvd - mothbrad's superb heads up leaves me thinking most Gimp moments will be off screen - perhaps expectations are too high and I'd leave feeling let down. Typical of the mainstream.

mothbrad - I trust you ended up taking the disgusted girl out to introduce her to the joys of Gimpdom - nice to see a chick magnet in our midst.

Stay Well All

Another stick-in-the-mud.... What do you think time machines were made for? You dump her in the Jurassic, of course! Wadda you mean, you don't have a time machine? Sigh...

Ralphus, your picture links didn't work.

Jefferson

It's too bad that our society thinks rape is worse than murder. When they start making movies where the chick is tied up and fucked....instead of chopped up, torched, or run through a meat grinder....I'll start watching with a little more interest.

If rape movies were legal, they'd be some of the most popular movies in the store....and violent crime would be dramatically reduced in this country because all the rapists would be whacking off to rape movies instead of going out and doing it!

Porn reduces crime. Violent crime is up in America because they are cracking down on producers of violent crime fantasy. Some day the idiots will figure it out.

Peril; yes. Creative bondage; yes. Fully clothed hot women stripped naked; yes. Light to moderate to even hard punishment; yes (but not excruciating agony, that's going too far for me). Sexual abuse, hot babe full body manhandling, rape; yep, you bet. Fear and humiliation from being bound, stripped and ravished; absolutely. Fear and horror from being mutilated; no thanks.

Like a lot of others, I don't much care for blood, especially excessive blood, which sounds like what we'll be getting in the Heather Matarazzo upside down bondage scene. Geez, is there anybody who likes to see a lot of blood? Maybe gorehounds, but I don't know any who frequent this forum, at least.

I'm much more into fear and struggling and suspense. My view, though, is that even if a scene ends badly for the damsel, it doesn't take away the tension and the excitement of seeing her bound and helpless beforehand. If you're squeamish, don't look at the gory part and just enjoy what she goes through before the killing. Turn off your DVD player or avert your eyes if you can't take it.

My question is...if you don't like killing, will you admit you like torture? I'd be willing to bet over half the guys here will admit to getting having their cranks turned by seeing a bound woman either being whipped or put through some other sort of physical pain. We're reacting to her anguish as she endures the punishment. So is snuff so much worse? I mean, it's all fake, anyway. She's reacting the same way, except she's closing her eyes at the end. I can get into a fake snuff scene with no problem. I'm surprised so many people seem to have an issue with it.

Steve Power: Excellent post, thanks. I agree with you. Horror movies do the killing and mayhem thing because they are afraid of doing the sex thing instead, especially nowadays. There just aren't enough rape scenes in movies anymore, at least not in horror movies where one would expect them. My opinion is that it's because rape makes people uncomfortable and killing is somehow more acceptable to the young people that frequent these movies.

If a guy is taking a date, how does he react when the chick onscreen is getting raped? His date is probably thinking how horrible it would be if that were her onscreen getting stripped and raped. She's probably uncomfortable and feeling self-conscious. And the guy? He can't very well cheer on the rapist with her sitting right next to him (even though he probably wants to) if he expects to get laid afterward. It's a real awkward situation. Whereas with killing, it's more of a release that both the guy his date can react to together. My theory, anyway. Anyone agree or disagree?

One question, though. You said violent crime is up in America because they are cracking down on producers of violent crime fantasy. We all know about the government crackdown, of course, but where did you hear that violent crime is up? Everything I've read has said just the opposite.

However Ralphus, you brought up an interesting point that rape scenes are less frequent in movies theses days because they alienate the female audience.

When "Monster" came out, the girl I was with wanted to see it. I don't think she was aware there was a rape scene. Although compared to others I've seen, it wasn't exploitive. Still, when it got to that scene, she held my hand and tears were running down her face.

I couldn't have a vicarious thrill of a woman being molested while the one right next to me was experiencing agony.

After the movie was over, she was still affected.

My guess is she was probably molested herself at least once that's why. And she seemed to be hinting at me that she was. I told her she could tell me anything, but she seemed to back down.

For me, if I see a rape movie, I'll see it alone or with like-minded friends.

For me it's a fantasy. For a woman it's a threat.

I just wish they'd make more of them for me to see.

It's nearly 30 years, when are they going to make the movie adaptations of Irving Wallace's' "The Fan Club" in which an actress is kidnapped and raped by four men. or the controversial "Diary of a Rapist"? Both good books waiting to be put on celluloid.

By the way, does anybody know of any good books, mainstream and exploitive, that's worth a read?

Just had to post and say that Hostel 2 was indeed everything I expected and more.

The first killing scene with Heather is the most deranged, ritualistic killing I've ever witnessed. Still, I loved it!

As far as the bondage is concerned, there are A LOT of gag scenes, for all you fellow gag fanatics like myself.

I'm not going to say that I condone death in any way, but I will say that I don't mind the torture aspect much at all, as long as there isn't too much blood. Which Hostel 2 is loaded with!

Still, a GREAT movie you wont be wasting your money on!

They lack the courage to shoot a rape scene and show the details. They've got plenty of courage when it comes to showing the small details of arterial vessels spewing blood from the severed neck of a dead body and will pat themselves on the back at awards ceremonies proclaiming how great their special effects have gotten....but ask them to show the cock going in and out of the ass of a babe being held down and fucked hard (one of my favorites). They cower in fear.....

I don't think leading edge art can be produced without risk. If they aren't taking any chances....they aren't producing leading edge shit.

Ralphus, When the bank terminated our merchant account last fall for extreme violence....I started looking into the link between porn and crime. I read a few articles and research papers on it. I wanted to know if the content I was shooting was harming society.

Studies designed to find a link between porn and crime failed to show the result that the investigators were looking for. In fact they found the opposite. Whether within the continental US...or the world as a whole....what you find is that the more porn there is on the street....the lower the crime rate.

In Japan you can buy a rape video on the street corner....rape is almost unheard of in Japan. In Germany I saw a black gay porno mag on the lower rack of magazines in a gas station. A stroller with a baby in it was right in front of it. Violent crime and rape are lower there. Go take a look at the background of the guys that are abducting teens for sex. In most cases they are too poor to get porn....or there is no porn in their local community. States that ban porn have higher incidence of violent crime. Can you buy porn in Iran? Where it is legal to have your sister killed for pre marital sex? I don't believe in coincidence. The fact of the matter is that masturbation relieves stress. Porn causes masturbation...therefore porn reduces stress. Reducing stress reduces crime. Why can't some college professor somewhere fund a bunch of grad students to study this? We should attack Iran by dropping porno mags from airplanes!

At any rate I came to my own self indulging conclusion that the product I was selling was a therapeutic drug that was good for society based on my read of the data. If there was a study linking porn to crime....believe me they'd be trumpeting that study in every courtroom in America. If somebody googles it they can find specific legal references and case studies.

Never finished answering your question....I heard on the news last week that violent crime went up slightly for the first time in decades last year. I could be wrong but I think that is what I heard. I predicted an increase in violent crime last year when I finished reading up on the link between violent crime and porn. I was waiting to see if crime went up this year. Sure enough it seems to have done it. I'd be interested to know if the college shooter in Virginia had access to porn. I'd bet that something in his family background prevented him from watching porn but that is pure speculation on my part.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lolacait <-- free yahoo group
http://www.clips4sale.com/store/13226 <-- online store

I hope to hear from some of you!!

xxxxxx
~ Lola

As for blood? I don't care much for snuff either. For me, blood is too messy and just ruins the scene. Whip marks are about the only blemishes on a woman's skin that I want to see. But the parts before the woman is killed are what really turn me on: The sight of a woman futilely struggling against her bonds and gag to save her life. I guess I like the idea that she is utterly helpless and the villain can do whatever he wants to her. Horror movies can often capture the moment better than a bondage flick.

But there is a definite market for blood and guts, or "torture porn," as the above URL calls it.

Aries: Lisa Kinkaid had a black garter belt and stockings in a later scene in Underland 2.

I'd like to weigh in on the question of why many of us are not into the gore factor. A lot of the so-called experts say that rape is about control. When the victim is killed the rapist loses that control, at least in a sense. While the poor bitch is trussed up, eyes wide with terror, gagged, and wondering what's next, that's the ultimate control trip. Once she's dead, well, she's just dead.

Now in reality you may say that most serial rapists like my namesake, or Ted Bundy, or whoever, kill their victims. But I think you'll find that that is usually an act of self preservation. As voyeurs we don't need to worry about that. So the gore does nothing for us. At least that's my interpertation.

By the way, to Steve of Powershot; if porn is good for me, I wonder if I can buy ZFX or Powershot videos thru my HMO just paying the co pay? Hmmmm...

Happy Gimping!

I agreed to share the clips from our shoot with her. Go to her clips4sale store and buy them from her....not me. She needs the bucks!

BTW, I'm not sure if everyone saw that there was a video included along with the article in Brutus' link. The direct link to the video is above. You get to see a few of the principles from Hostel: Part 2 interviewed, among them director Eli Roth, who makes the comment "I don't want to sit and watch girls get tortured". Well, of course he's going to say that! But we know better, don't we, Eli? Nudge nudge, wink wink :)

Nice! Sounds like they didn't go too far, but WaterBondage is always fun! I doubt they'll do much asphyx though. Too bad.

Steve Powers: Why would you want to kill a gorgeous babe that you've got tied up when you could fuck her instead?

Instead? Why "instead"? You fuck her as your killing her. It's the ultimate power trip -- to have someone's life in your hands and slowly, painfully take it away.

Now, necrophilia -- that's a fetish I'll NEVER get!

In Japan you can buy a rape video on the street corner....rape is almost unheard of in Japan.

Rape is UNREPORTED in Japan. If you think there's little or no rape in Japan, you're being blind. The rest of your post seems fair, but the above is just plain wrong.

Ralphus: I don't much care for blood, especially excessive blood, which sounds like what we'll be getting in the Heather Matarazzo upside down bondage scene. Geez, is there anybody who likes to see a lot of blood? Maybe gorehounds, but I don't know any who frequent this forum, at least.

I don't care too much for blood either. A good slow strangulation, with the girl fighting for every molecule of air -- that gets me going.

I'm on several "death fetish" boards and there's as much variation in what appeals as there is here. There are some who will LOVE these scenes. I'm kinda "meh" about it, honestly.

She's reacting the same way, except she's closing her eyes at the end.

Not if it's done right! A nice long tracking shot of those open, anguished eyes is the proper finish to a snuff film.

VM: Also at VM recently added two more producers, Wave Productions and Peachy Keen.

These are the two extremes of "snuff" films. WAVE has one or two decent scenes in YEARS of shooting. Their "special effects" and "acting" are laughable. On the other hand, John of Peachy Keen does some of the best work, mainstream included. "The Lawyer and The Bodyguard" has some terrific shots and takes. I showed it to a friend totally not into the "death fetish" and he was amazed how good it is.

Dont think there has been any mention on Gimp of an upcoming movie called The Girl Next Door. There is a trailer up now. This film based on The Jack Ketchum novel (real life Sylvia Likens) case will feature bondage and torture. Being released by Moderncine. Probably have much more bondage footage then Hostel 2.

http://www.thegirlnextdoorfilm.com/

http://www.thegirlnextdoorfilm.com/images/behind_scenes_large_5.jpg

http://www.thegirlnextdoorfilm.com/images/behind_scenes_large_6.jpg

http://www.thegirlnextdoorfilm.com/images/girl_next_door_large_8.jpg

As you know, I love women in bondage, and fantasize about damsels in distress, even if it could lead to a fate such as death. Scum and villainy, as Obi Wan Kenobi referred to them as, make a story interesting, and poses a true honorable challenge to the good guys in saving the damsel.

The picture of Heather Mantarazzo hanging upside down gagged about to be carved up for the sake of a blood shower, actually made my bondage fetish take notice. Looking at her hands and feet wiggling with the rest of her body would have been intoxicating...up until she is murdered...I've read the spoilers so I know what happens.

Now let's rewrite it. Heather is spared at the very last minute by the appearance of no other than Jules Pitt and Vincent Vega from "Pulp Fiction".

"We were sent by Mr. Wallace to collect a payment. We want to talk to your boss" States Pitt. Vega checks out the girl hanging upside down but does nothing to untie her. He lets her struggle a bit

You could probably plug Pitt's words from "Pulp" from the Samuel L. Jackson sound board http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/sjackson.html

They would probably shoot the vampire bitch and leave Heather to struggle as the walk off. Fade out.

Anyways! The TOS at Renderotica has been restored to it's previous state in August when you could show just about anything as long as it wasn't snuff or chlid porn.

By the way, my pic is missing from the noted guests page. I can send you another if you would like.

Thanks.

It just seems like the movies keep getting more and more brutal with more torture scenes, hmmm, makes ya wonder....

Great looking movie! Just wish I wouldn't have read the part of about it being a true story..... :(

CAPTIVITY starring Elisha Cuthbert

Comes out Wednesday.

Well, after months of awaiting the much-anticipated Hostel: Part 2, I went to the theater and saw it today. My reaction? This is a VERY entertaining movie, worth the wait. As far as waiting for the DVD, it's up to you, but I'm glad I didn't wait an additional 4 to 6 months to see it. It was money well-spent.

To those that haven't seen the movie and want to be surprised, stop reading now. I'm serious. Like my other reviews, I'm going to give away what happens, because I want people to decide on their own whether the content is worth the 8 bucks or so for a movie ticket. You've been warned.

>>> SPOILER ALERT: The following contains information about important plot points <<<

The plot is about 3 young women, nice girl Beth (played by Lauren German), her flirty friend Whitney (Bijou Phillips) and nerdy girl Lorna (Heather Matarazzo) who are taking classes in Italy. There they meet Axelle, a model in their art class, played by the gorgeous Vera Jordanova. Axelle convinces them to take a trip out to Slovakia. She seems to be their only friend in a strange country, but what they don't suspect is that she is actually setting them up to be targets. It just so happens that her father is the head honcho of an underground network where rich people pay large amounts of money to have victims brought to a factory to be tortured and killed, a hunting party, so to speak.

While it may take a while to get to the "good" scenes that GIMPers will care most about, I have to say that the buildup was quite enjoyable. These early scenes have a certain misogynistic edge about them that kept me smiling. We basically know from the start that these girls are going to become victims, and here they are, alone in a foreign country where seemingly everyone around them looks upon them as sexual objects to be either taken or scorned. They are harassed and berated by a group of toughs aboard a train, and even accosted by a crowd of sinister children who spits in one of their faces and calls them bitches. And every time a stranger in the crowd would glance their way with a sly smile, you just know they are in on the plot against them. They see the girls as nothing more than prey, only pretty, unsuspecting objects to be used. There's a sequence early on where you see several people across the country engaged in a furious online bidding war for the rights to win access to these pretty girls. Oh, if only they knew they were literally being auctioned off to the highest bidder!

The scene that has generated the most buzz in the movie is the fate that befalls Heather's character. After being attacked, we next see her hanging upside-down nude and gagged with a very thick cleave gag. She is led on a pulley into the middle of a huge room and dangled by her ankles over a large tile bathtub. A woman enters, disrobes and lays down below the squirming and moaning girl. Then she takes an old-fashioned wooden scythe and sadistically runs the blade all over Lorna's nude body, teasing her with it and even using the blade to slice off Lorna's gag, just to hear her scream louder. But then she gets really mean and slices up Lorna with the blade and orgasmically bathes in the blood that pours down. Lorna meets her end with a nasty slit to her throat. The scene is awfully bloody and will turn off some people, obviously. I'm not a fan of blood either, but I thought the scene was very well done.

Unlike the other two girls, we don't see Bijou's character get initially abducted. Her peril starts when we see her tied and gagged along with several others (males and females) in a waiting room of sorts, awaiting the moment when the guards come and take her for her turn. She does make an escape attempt, but her efforts are thwarted and she's recaptured, thankfully.

When we see her next, she's strapped down to metal chair (wearing a sexy pink bustier and fishnet stockings...good choice) and ballgagged (even better). The sadistic man who won the auction for her menaces her with a chainsaw, but changes his mind when the saw accidentally cuts her across the face, which grosses him out and he decides he doesn't want to kill her after all. She ends up being killed later, but it's not shown.

And that leaves us with our leading lady Beth. After being chloroformed, she ends up tied to a chair like her friend, tightly cleave-gagged and with her head covered with a black pillowcase. While she ends up relatively unharmed, her peril scenes worked the best because of the dramatic tension that is built between her and the reluctant man who initially paid to kill her. He tells her that she was brought there to be killed, and her anguished reactions upon learning the news is exciting stuff. He takes off her gag and unties her to let her escape, but in a twist I didn't see coming, the former milquetoast finally discovers his Inner Sadist and takes her down again with a blow to the face.

He chains her back up to the chair, gags her tightly and menaces her with some wonderfully nasty talk, liberally throwing around the bitch word and scaring the shit out of her. In a last ditch attempt, she persuades him to remove her gag, and she tells him she's attracted to him (No! Don't listen to her!). He unties her (NO!) and prepares to rape her on the floor, but she turns the tables on him and that's basically the end of the good stuff. Oldest trick in the book. Why do so many villains fall for that?

Despite the blood, I think many fans of Girls In Merciless Peril will have a great time watching Hostel Part 2. I think it's a lot of fun. If the first Hostel (which I didn't see) could be a big hit by tying up and torturing guys, this sequel deserves to do even better, because they finally got the formula right. Horror + Girls In Bondage = Fine Entertainment. And if we want to see more films like this in theaters, it's our duty as perverts to support this effort.
My grade: B+

I look at rape as an energetic process. It requires a high level of intensity. If whacking off to porn reduces the energy available to cause rape....it will reduce the incidence of rape.

There is a counter argument that porn somehow teaches us to go out and rape.....only problem with that argument is this....I was already fantasizing about rape before I'd seen my first page of porn. Porn doesn't cause rape fantasies....they were already there to begin with.

I'm also jazzed about "The Girl Next Door." That is one of the more disturbing books I've ever read. It's hot, but it's really sad and cruel. The climax of the book, which I won't spoil, is one of the scariest moments of sexual torture I've ever encountered. That's not going to be an easy film to watch. I thought it had been discussed on the GIMP board earlier? Maybe that was a horror website I'm remembering. Oh well.

Good to hear about The Girl Next Door. The book has just jumped to the top of my 'wants list'.

Ralphus My Catholic self tells me not to patronize the film. The spoiler you provided tells me that the film should have drawn an NC-17 rating. Lorna's peril sounded like a real treat until she was snuffed. Suspended upside down also provides some neat bare feet bondage as well. I still like the alternative "Pulp Fiction" crossover I provided. LOL

This would have been rewritten as a CSI type adventure with lab techs solving each murder with a kick-ass climax.

Catholics are in fact extremely kinky and horny> :)

The Lykins story is really horrible, but the other books I've read about the account "The Basement" and "The Indiana Torture Slaying" are also great reads. If the Girl Next Door movie, which I understand has gotten the blessing of Ketchum himself, is half as arousing as the book, it could be a GIMP classic.

My fear is that they will tone down the nudity (especially considering the character is underage) and not show us the torture, which would be nearly impossible to recreate for the screen without going either unrated or NC-17. I will applaud their casting of Blythe Auffarth, though. I have very high hopes for this one.

Ralphus: I just made my contribution to the Eli Roth fund, and I agree with your fine assessment of Hostel 2. I thought the part with Heather hanging was one of the best GIMP scenes in a mainstream movie I've seen in a long time. There was ample time for the terror and mmmphing through the gag before the blood started pouring. But I was bit disappointed with the Bijou scene. Far too brief for such a hottie with a ballgag. And Lauren had way too many clothes on. Still, GIMP-wise, I agree with your grade.

As a film, I think the big difference between the first Hostel and the sequel (and the box office receipts) is Roth's approach. The first one, for me at least, was sheer terror mixed with some subtle black humor. The sequel, as Mothbrad said, looked like it was played for laughs. The killers in the first movie were really despicable and beyond sadistic, and they underscored the sense of desperation for the good guys. But in the sequel, the two killers proved so incompetent there was no doubt Lauren was gonna come out on top. Countess Bathory should have shown them how it's done. Still, I enjoyed the sequel.

SPOILER ALERT ENDS!!

Aries: Now that I think about it, I am surprised at how few scenes I can recall with Lisa Kinkaid in a garter belt. I haven't seen all of her work, but it seems she's more apt to wear jeans (The Apartment, Ballista, Trojan Horse) or pantyhose (The Dentist, High Strung) or nothing at all. I'm sure there must be other ZFX movies with Lisa in a garter belt, but I can't think of any at the moment. Maybe our Canadian friend can help after he returns from LA.

Sock Puppet: All the stills and reviews I've seen and read give me no indication there is any bondage in Captivity. Hope I'm wrong.

HOT HOT HOT !

Scion, The

And ... on that subject. I'm a bit of a writer. And at the same time, I couldn't draw my way out of a paper bag. So I'm putting out something of a personal challenge/request/wish. Are there any artists who would like to collaborate on a project? Something which involves detailed writing and illustrated pictures. I have no idea what form it might end up with, but it's something I've wanted to do for a while. See my link above for the only thing I've really published. I can send you more examples if you're interested. My interests are #1 brutal torture, and everything else GIMPworthy as a sort of equal #2. Let me know.

Spoilers.

This movie has the worst ending imaginable though. I don't get it. It is HOSTEL. Unrelenting horror, because it is INESCAPABLE. You're supposed to ask "Now how the hell are they going to get out of this?" and then as they die one by one, the answer is "They don't! There's NO WAY OUT." That's why it's scary. But ......."I want to buy my way out!" "Okay." "The End"

What a horrendous let down of an ending. Well, it goes to show, lessons for movie villains... Never EVER take out the gag. And, the terrified girl does NOT want to f*ck you, she's lying, dumbass, and she will NOT "make it great" if you just untie her.

Let me just say that I am warm and fuzzy as I checked the current ramblings in this board, and I thank you for your support. Just don't put any pics that have "premier" marked on them, I'll catch hell from Diane, the person who runs Renderotica! After all, she and I get paid for them.

The pic featured on the page is Priscilla about to become a unwilling participant of a organ donor program.

I'll be doing the GIMP style of artwork again, now that the TOS at 'rotica has been restored! And I will be working on my very first graphic novel, in the style of Heavy Metal magazine, that will not only have erotic damsels in distress but also some wall-to-wall action (lotsa fights and gunplay). I'll probably sell it at the Renderotica store as a pdf. It's in the early stages of development, so it won't be taking shape for a while.

Thanks again!

thanx in advance....

I will be in a minority here in actually liking the ending. Would I have rather seen more hot chicks getting tortured? Fuckin' A. But when the main girl stood up and embraced the dark notion of paying to kill her tormentor? And death by castration? Perfect! Not the most GIMPTASTIC was to do it, but it worked for me.

Now as the the "ending" ending. . .when the main girl murdered that super hot chick that had led her to the bad guys. . . what if instead of simply dipatching her with an axe, she had BOUGHT a session with her in the torture dungeons and sexually tortured her to death! That would have been the best of all possible endings. Hot chick on hotter chick violence. And she could be a repeat customer! Sick, sick, sick. WAY too dark and a bit too perverted for a mainstream movie, but I can always dream. MY review. . . as a movie, A, as a gimpfest, A-. I was not disappointed on either front.

All praise be to SamuelKahn for the pics. Tell me, do you have a LOT of gimp pics in the premiere area? I still keep meaning to check that out, and this might be a good reason to bite the bullet. I'm diggin what I'm seein'.

Re "Captivity": In all the scenes I seen, Eliza has all her clothes on. Yeesh!

We haven't heard much from Hank lately, though. Doesn't look like he's updated his group for a while. Hank, are you out there?

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,281592,00.html

They passed a measure (actually a rubber stamp by their version of Hitler) that would require the death penalty for those who produce or distribute porn in Iran.

Anyway, I can`t think of many Lisa scenes with sexy stockings. She did have pantyhose in the Hooters scene in Dirty Dreams, and pink pantyhose in Guilty 2 (I think). But that's all I can think of.

jhlipton: Sorry I missed you. I should have posted my travel plans sooner.

jhlipton and Thanagar:

Why kill her when you can fuck her? Like jhlipton says, nothing stops you from doing both. To which I'd add that, for me, there isn't a lot of point snuffing the chick unless she's getting fucked in the process -- or at least some other alternative, explicitly sexual doings.

Given my own gimp art exploits, obviously my take here is one in favourable to snuff scenarios. Where snuff-oriented film is concerned, I think the best expression of snuff eroticism is in the old French film Kinky Ladies of Bourbon Street. The female protagonist who guides her various very attractive female charges through their paths to sexual suicides observes to them near the beginning that, to her, 'nothing is more erotic than being fucked to death.' What follows is her three wards snuffing themselves, one using a lit stick of dynamite as a dildo, another drowned in cum during a French proto-bukkake scene, and the last fucked until she passes out from successive orgasms, then dropped into a swimming pool by the guy who's banged her into unconsciousness. Admittedly, suicide isn't strictly gimp stuff (as the merciless peril is wholly voluntary), but them film's death-sex maxim can carry across to gimp scenarios pretty much unaltered.

Jhlipton is right about power trips, but also the idea that snuffing the girl makes the sex 'ultimate' for her in the sense of final -- plus various forms of snuff scenario take the form of extreme versions of s&m gimping. Hardgore, for example, involves a quasi-consensual guillotining while getting doggie fucked, and Sex Wish entails a couple of rape killings, the last very well done.

IMHO, the thing with most death fetish scenarios I tend to find out there in cyberspace is that, like a lot of bondage or other s&m, the fetish element gets decoupled from the sex.

If only there was more stuff that kept the sex in the snuff and vice versa. But in this PC-whipped day and age....

As a special only for the readers of this forum, I'm offering everyone here a special price for the 4 brand new ZFX titles just added to Video Mayhem: Guinea Pigs 3, 4 and 5 and Subject 9. Just mention "GIMP" or "GIMP CUSTOMER" when placing your order and you'll get an extra $5.00 off any of these titles ordered, maximum savings of $20.00! These are titles that won't be available online for another month, so grab them now at a special price, only for our friends here at the GIMP.

I think Subject 9 was the first appearance for another ZFX star, Penelope Pace (at least it was the first time I ever saw her), and it's another good one. You get to see Penelope back when she was pretty and blonde and pre-boob job, and even then she could always play a victim to perfection. I'm glad to see these finally coming out to be enjoyed by a new generation of pervs.

California: I would be curious to get jhlipton's take on the bondage movie scene in Los Angeles and other parts of California. I checked the Hustler store and another store that stocked porn on Sunset Boulevard and I came away with the impression that California may not be a ZFX-friendly place (apart from online sales). In the two stores I saw, there was hardly any bondage, and nothing that couldn't be found in your typical Canadian store. No signs of anything by Rick Masters, Dan Hawke, Natasha Flade, etc. Of course, the sample size for my research was pretty small.

Hostel 2: For some reason, I'm still not sold on this one, even after reading the official Ralphus review. I may have to give this some sober second thoughts once I get over my jet lag (and once I'm sober).

Captivity: I know nothing about the movie, but I like the billboard posters. Although, if my memory is correct, the advertising for this movie has been watered down.

Having read the various reviews and heads up posts on Hostel 2, I'm going to weigh in without having seen it - grades seem to run from mediocre to much better than average and back to disappointing - as I intend to watch it on dvd and am in no tremendous hurry I pose this to those who have seen it - it sounds I may suffer disappoint in Roth's "time allotment" - sounds like rather than 1 hour of set up and 1/2 hour of torment that should have been reversed to make it truly Gimp worthy - let me know if I'm off base on this.

Stay Well All

They are no friend of the West and are a real threat.

Nothing about Iran should surprise anybody.

VM: Damn, it looks like Video Mayhem will soon have every bondage movie made!

Mothbrad: Check the above URL originally provided by Jake. Good luck with your project ;-)

BTW, I managed to get hold of the paperback of 'The Girl Next Door', and was going to do a long review of it here, but don't have the time (and also, book reviews might be outside the realm of this site). Having said that, it's a good horror novel which has the potential to be an excellent film. I notice though that some of the festivals have had a film called 'An American Crime', which is a more literal version of the Sylvia Likens story. Has anyone come across this one?

Let's start with Heather's scene. Naked and hung upside down and pulled across the room on a pulley like in a slaughterhouse? I love upside-down scenes but how often do you see something like that in a mainstream movie, let alone a bondage film? The Japanese do it, yes, but they are in a whole different league. Among US producers, you could maybe find it in a few of the old HOM loops from the 70s, and I can think of only 3 ZFX films (out of over 150) that have upside-down bondage and that's about it.

I'll bet you can't name 3 other mainstream movies that have a tied-up victim hung upside-down naked. I can only think of one and it wasn't even made in the US, it was Italian (The Gestapo's Last Orgy). Heather's scene in Hostel: Part 2 was incredible, and I don't think anyone could categorize it as "commonplace".

The two other girls were bound to chairs; okay, that's certainly been done, but Bijou was ballgagged. And again, how many mainstream films feature ballgags? Fortunately, they're starting to slowly be used more in mainstream cinema, but it's still pretty rare, you have to admit.

And how many other movies can you name where a tied-up girl was menaced and tortured with a chainsaw? A Canadian reviewed a movie called Blood Ranch that had chainsaw bondage torture, but did any of the Texas Chainsaw movies have that used on a bound victim? I don't think so; someone correct me if I'm wrong. And that's all I can think of, too. So I wouldn't say that's commonplace, either.

My question to anyone who saw the movie and didn't like it, what exactly were you wanting that you didn't get? The 3 girls were attractive, they were bound, they were gagged, they were tortured. Two of them died and there was a lot of blood, but that's a convention of horror movies. In my mind, this one is a classic of its kind for those who like to see women put in merciless peril. I'm still surprised people are dismissing it as either not worth seeing at all or else just waiting for the DVD because of the death scenes. Does blood and gore really bother you that much? It's already up on the top of the site, but let's make it an official GIMP poll.

GIMP POLL:
Based on what you've now read, how many of you intend to see Hostel: Part 2 in theaters? And if not, why not?

Let's get some feedback, and not just from the regulars. Surely others have to be curious and have opinions about this movie. Let's hear from you lurkers, too. Perfect time to step out and say what you think, because your opinions are important, too. This is your forum; talk it up, guys!

I would love to see this movie on DVD with a bunch of people from this forum. I think in those circumstances, the movie would have been an A- or A easily. I was reviewing based on my personal experience among a bunch of kids, etc. I concur with Ralphus that even if you only enjoy ten minutes out of the film, if you come here regularly and want to see more movies along these lines (ie female victims; inventive torture scenes), then definitely drop your money and see it.

I am a little late with the Gimp's Poll -mmm...regarding wether the girl's face is shown in the film is not a big deal as long as she's got the body of Jessica Beil, she could have the face of "Jack Palance"! - I will still hire or buy the the film, however I might point out that putting a face kind of humanizes the victim - we are probably more likely to side with the rapist if there is no face show - and once again I'm more of a rape fan if the victim is a complete and utter bitch, if she's a cutie: the Dan Hawke style of submission and humiliation is fine by me. Sorry for taken so long Ralphus!!

REGARDS

TVK

Review: August Underground's Mordum was like watching a car crash. One guy bashes another guy's head in with a hammer. (Action is blocked by the attacker's body, but result is shown.) Corpses are strewn all over the place. The rape scene: A woman is pulled out of a coffin. She is naked except for a white plastic mask that is taped over her face. The same guy as before rapes her as his female friend cheers him one. They open another coffin where a man in similar bondage is being kept. They threaten to torture the woman to death unless he cuts off his own penis, which he does with scissors requiring numerous snips. The girl kisses the severed penis and sticks in the raped woman's vagina.

In the next scene that might be of interest to anyone here, the same girl is puking on two bound girls, kissing the girls, forcing them to kiss each other, licking off the puke, forcing them to lick puke off of each other and forcing them to puke on each other, all while some guys watch, laugh and masturbate. One of the girls is then eviscerated. After she is dead, one of the guys uses the wound for a makeshift vagina. The other victim has a plastic bag put over her head and is killed by a blow to the face. The bag is then removed.

In the next scene of any interest, a bound and gagged girl is terrorized for a bit and then has her throat cut.

In the last scene of any interest, the guy who had sex with the dead girl's belly wound is having sex with a female corpse in a bathtub where he presumably killed her. In the living room, a naked woman is hanging upside down. Eventually, her throat is cut. There is a bound male victim present presumably for reaction shots.

The movie is shot to look like the people in it are documenting their own escapades. There is a ton of screaming and shouting at each other. Every sentence seems to contain the word f*ckin' and is shouted three times or more. It might be necessary due to deafness as a result of all the shouting. ...tons of anger, maniacal laughter and sick imagery.

I really don't know what grade to give it. It would rank high from a realism standpoint, but very low when it comes to the thought of ever wanting to watch it again; it was seriously gross and I hated all the shouting and fighting.

Jefferson

Official Hostel 2 poll: At this point, I'm still planning to wait for the DVD. I like what I have read about this movie, and I take the points that Ralphus has made about the ball gags and the upsidedown suspension -- and yet, somehow, the excitement just isn't there. I honestly don't know what I expected, but I'm still feeling I can wait for the DVD.

Mr. Roth claimed that he was going to have a film that would change history...I did not see it...for instance, to me it would have been far better to have put the girls in more intricate bondage positions (spreadeagles with limbs really stretched, impalement etc)..the scenes were really vanilla....he was going for an NC17 rating, but did not come close...

I'm sure many of the fans of this website could come up more intricate predicament bondage than Mr. Roth did, and that is my point..If you are going to do a movie about torture then do your homeowrk. Medieval tortures were far more devious than what was shown in this movie..A chainsaw is used far too often in movies....torture has always been a slow process not a fast one thru the ages...

The Heather Mattarazzo scene is supposedly in homage to Elizabeth Bathory...Well, she tortured her victims in numerous ways for long periods of time...Heather's scene reminded me of a French film (A Bell from Hell) with the victim upside down instead of hanging by her hands...It basically comes down to a golden opportunity to go beyond the common bondage used in films and TV and the failure to do so...The director made a lot of promises but in reality, the bondage and gore level was low...

Try Inshadow.com (or their store at nicheclips). They have several clips of girls strangled to death while being fucked.

Canadian: I would be curious to get jhlipton's take on the bondage movie scene in Los Angeles and other parts of California.

Every sex shop I've visited has an extensive bondage section. I've not checked titles or producers, but next time I'm in Whittier (home of our favorite shop), I'll check it out.

Alan: They are no friend of the West and are a real threat.

That describes Cheney and Rove as well!

Jim:

The limbs wouldn't even have to all that stretched, if they had them tied at odd angles or on interesting lattices (Hogtied is an excellent source of ideas). I'm nowhere near limber and I could have an ankle and a wrist cuffed together. Also, it sounds like only one girl in three is topless, so that's a waste too.

I'll see how I feel tomorrow, and might go on a whim.

I might if there was an explicit rape scene but since there isn't, it just sems like an exploitation movie I can wait to see on cable.

BTW, I love these pictures of the Tracy and Hepburn of bondage flicks, Travis Lee and Holly Weston. What a joy.

Fred Vogel of Toe Tag told me that the sequel was even more over-the-top than the first, although most of what you described sounds more like gross for grossness sake. I'm into distress, not mutilation. When are today's horror filmmakers going to realize that more blood does NOT necessarily equal more entertainment? Bondage and torture scenes are a lot more exciting than snuff scenes. And the good thing is, you can use the victim over and over if you don't kill her. It's just more logical that way.

And congrats, you've joined the elite club and you're now part of our ever-growing Reviews section. The direct link to your review is in my Homepage URL above.

Mothbrad: Sorry, I missed replying to this one earlier. Yeah, we normally don't review books here, but seeing as The Girl Next Door is soon to be a major motion picture loaded with GIMP scenes, I think it's on-topic to let the forum know about what to expect. It's one of my all-time favorite books and probably most of the gang here isn't familiar with the story. If you don't have time for a long review, just let us know some of the major points and why we should be hoping for great things if the movie follows the book closely.

Hostel 2: I really liked this movie and I rank it up there with other mainstream GIMP classics. Jim does make some good points about Roth not going far enough with the bondage and torture, but I could say the same thing for about almost every Hollywood movie I've seen, as well as many bondage flicks. Given the constraints imposed on Hollywood filmmakers, I think Roth did a good job.

Could it have been better? Of course! I'm no filmmaker, but here's some things that might have been possible:

1. In the lead-up, have some glimpses of naked women getting tortured to show the viewer what awaits the three unsuspecting art students. In the first Hostel, they showed a quick early scene of woman secured to a chair who gets a toe cut off. Very effective.

2. Prolong Heather's suspension death and include more elements of the real Countess Bathory. Have the woman killer first torture Heather with some unwanted lesbian stuff and maybe some beatings. Cut to the other women and the dialogue in the outdoor bath. Then show the Countess upping the torture on Heather with a whip or some fire. Cut again to Lauren talking to Vera in the bath. And then finish off Heather with the scythe scene.

3. Give that gung-ho wannabe killer a brain! Only a total idiot starts off a torture sequence with a chainsaw. Might as well just put a bullet in her head. The villains in the first movie knew what they were doing. They used non-lethal weapons like a drill and blow torch before the kill. And what kind of moron pays thousands of bucks for a babe, dolls her up, uses a ballgag, and doesn't bother tapping her?

4. Show how Bijou dies.

5. I like Bobjones' idea to change the ending to have Lauren torturing Vera instead of the quick decapitation. How about having Vera naked, gagged and bent over in some stocks. Lauren walks in the room with Vera's father. She hands over a wad of dough, and he leaves as Vera pleads through the gag for help. We see that Lauren is wearing a huge, evil-looking strap-on dildo, perhaps with blades attached. Lauren says, "I'm here to fulfill all of those dyke tendencies of yours before I kill you. Do you still find me attractive?" The end. Part 3 can take off where Part 2 ends.

To me an audience seeing someone abducted from a place they consider safe would hit a larger nerve than 3 girls being lured to a spa..Also who said it has to be one victim per client..If a client has the money he could have multiple victims all being tortured together and watching the things being done to each other..again far more terryfying...Just imagine the possibilities for scenes and victims..

Meg is a teenage girl who, along with her sister, has lost her parents, and is placed in the care of Ruth, the single mother of several other children. The time is the 1950's, when neighbourhood children move in and out of each others houses, and in the summer, spend time playing 'The Game' - a sort of Bondage version of 'Cowboys and Indians'. Nothing particularly graphic is made of this, but a lot is hinted at.

The story arc follows Ruth slowly losing her mind, and subjecting Meg to a series of punishments that gets worse and worse over time, including locking her in a basement bomb shelter, and running the gamut of emotional and physical abuse. She is not allowed to eat or drink; she is beaten; she is forced to eat dog shit (or maybe human shit - I can't quite remember); and eventually, she is badly mutilated. The worst of her treatment is not described particularly graphically, but as the other members of Ruth's family get involved in the abuse, there is a real sense of menace built up.

The book is a horror novel, not a bondage novel, so the focus is on building up a sense of terror. I wasn't particularly scared by the novel, but then again, I wasn't especially turned on by it. This movie, if made by someone with a GIMP sensibility, could be a true classic, but I think, as was said before, the fact that Meg is a teenager will probably influence how far the filmmakers go with the story. Also, the novel is based (often closely) on the true story of Sylvia Likens (see link above), which might also have some impact on how the characters are portrayed.

I should mention the dog turd in the mouth was barely even touched upon...it was only mentioned briefly and never went into detail, if that might scare people into thinking the book is really gross. But the other stuff that poor Meg goes through is pretty harsh, and gets worse as the book goes on. The initial bondage scene has her blindfolded and gagged, tied standing with her arms spread far apart (think the letter Y) and balanced on a thick stack of encyclopedias. The boys decide to make things a bit more uncomfortable for her by removing the encyclopedias one by one, with each one stretching her out a little tighter. Then they cut away her clothes as she cries and leave her alone in the dark basement. I'm not doing it justice in my description, but suffice to say Ketchum knows the exact words to use to bring the horror of her predicament to life. He's an excellent writer.

In another scene, the sadistic old lady has her gagged and tied to a post in the basement, wearing a puffy dress. She starts flicking matches at her, purposely trying to ignite the dress Meg is wearing, and the suspense builds and builds until the dress catches fire. I won't ruin the rest, but it's great stuff.

When they decide to clean Meg up after several days of captivity, she's tied again and forced into a shower of scalding hot water that burns her skin. She's also has words branded onto her stomach with the heated end of a sewing needle, and all the boys take turns marking her up. Then there's the unspeakable thing they do to her pussy to make sure she'll never enjoy sex ever.

Like I say, it's nasty stuff, but incredibly well-written and the impact from just reading it is about as good as any bondage video I've seen. The fact that this book has now been filmed as a movie is exciting news, since we'll finally have a chance to see visual images of what were only black words on a white page before. My guess is that they will tone down the nudity and torture in the film, but from what I'm heard, Ketchum is very happy with the job they did translating his book to the screen. I can't wait to see this one.

I would have liked to seen more of Whitney (what we saw was PRIME) and much more of Beth, but there's plenty of nudity to go around! BTW, no chain-saws, only circular saws. Guys, know your tools!

The story is suspenseful and keeps your interest (even if you know the ending) (A nice call-back to The Man Who Would Be King at the end). A couple of plot-holes, but easily over-looked for the entertainment value the film provides.

Non-GIMP Grade: A

GIMP Grade: B+

Thanks for the thanks, but as usual, you did a better job reviewing the book than I did. It's not the normal type of book that I read, so I wasn't really able to do it justice. If I took something away from the book, it's that it was more likely to give me nightmares than to give me that indefinable 'something' that we want out of our texts/films.

Having said that, these Guinea Pigs pics are blowing my mind. Our local 'transgressive art' store had one of the GP movies, but I'm pretty sure that was only because they ordered it by mistake, thinking it was part of that Japanese series. In any case, it looks like I need to make the investment.

Hi all:

I've just made a limited update to my Plastic Penetration Productions extreme s&m art site. There's a new photo set called The Slut Collector, and I've finally put up a banner for Bring out the GIMP (thanks for being so patient, Ralphus).

Hope some people here like some of what's there.

S.

• Early ZFX: Approximately 1991-1994, this period features the likes of Alison Parish, Victoria Vixxen, Rebecca Montgomery, and many others.

• Mid-ZFX: Approximately 1995-98, this period includes films starring Chandra Sweet, Penelope Pace, and a younger Lisa Kinkaid, and also includes many Shockwave titles with sci-fi themes and effects.

• Later ZFX: Approximately 1999-present, this period includes a number of the South of the Border titles, along with some of the Ballista movies and later releases like The Apartment.

However, that's just my opinion. I would be curious to know if other GIMPers have a preference for one time period over another.

Sorry I haven't contributed in awhile. I've been away.

It seems I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

To answer A Canadian's poll, I have always been an Alison Parrish fan. I think she is incredibly HOT and Sexy. So, I would vote for the very early stuff. The early stuff kinda set the bar. I remember when I first saw ZFW videos in the Time Square Adult stores how great I thought it was, that Bondage films were pushing the envelope. I remember going at least once a week and hoping to see new titles.

The only knock I have against the early ZFX videos was the loud screechy synthysized background "music" that was annoyingly present throughout the movie.

Re the poll - I don't think I've seen enough to comment, however, is there a chronological list of ZFX movies, so I'll know where the ten or so films I've seen fit in?

When I first started watching bondage videos I was perfectly content with the stuff from Harmony and Arrow. I remember thinking that their content was really extreme and pushing the envelope as it were. But as years progressed those very same videos that I found as "hot" in the 80's seemed too tame. My tastes had progressed.

I think that when I look at the content produced by ZFX over the years my views run about the same. The early stuff seemed like the ultimate bondage material at the time it came out, but as my tastes grew more sophisticated/perverted/extreme/kinky/sick (pick one!) I needed stronger material. And the great thing about Rick's stuff is that it has kept pace with those needs, at least in regards to quality if not quantity. So I guess that means I'm voting for the later stuff, at least until something stronger comes along.

Now don't get me wrong here. I still get a kick out of some of the earlier material. I've always been a fan of Alison Parish. I liked the Night Prowler series, especially #1. I liked Gangland too. Hell I've liked all of it! But at the same time it seems tame now. Is it just me or does anybody else feel the same way? Maybe I've just become jaded. Oh well.

Happy Gimping!

1991-1994- Tru Detective, Maximum DeSade, Hardbound Television, Hellbound, Tied Tales, Doc Bondage, Binding Contract, Total Restraint, Peril Age, Southern Discomfort, Misadventures of Lois Payne, Flesh For Fantasy, Scene of the Crime, Guinea Pigs 1-5, Erotic Bondage Confessions, Jennifer's Nightmares, Spread Eagle, Meanstreak, Pretty Tied Up, Squealer, Highway To Hell, Future Shock, Night Prowler, Xtractor, Abduction of Sweet Christine, Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap, Tiffany Twisted 1 & 2, Belly of the Beast, Alien Probe 1-3, Dance Macabre 1 & 2, Gangland 1-5, Chamber of Horrors, The Necklace 1-3, Spectre, Surgical Strike, Video Pirates 1-5, The Van, Innocent Exile, Disciplz of Pain, Witch Hunt

1995-1998- Subject 9, Point of Entry, Fair Warning, The Plant, The Worm, Voodoo Dolls 1 & 2, Beyond Driven 1-3, Blunt Trauma 1-4, War Pigs 1-4, Phantacide Peepshow 1 & 2, The Hitchiker, Mincemeat Pie, Doer, Art of Darkness, Bound For Madness, Liza Cord, Trojan Horse, Tool Box Abductions 1 &2, Cheerleaders of Peril U. 1 & 2, Ms. Cox, Vostock Core, Hard Down Easy, The Dentist, The Incubus 1&2, South of the Border 1 & 2, The Reporter 1 & 2, Whiplash 1-3, As Darkness Falls, Guilty 1 & 2, Machine Head, Cold Metal, Rage Against The Machine, Supermax, Seed, Spinnerette, Robopimp, Forced Entry, Drifters, Underland, Vacum

1999-2006- 666 1 & 2, South of the Border 3-7, Miss Ballista 1-3, Underland 2, In Their Nature, Phallicide, Dark Offering, High Strung, Viral Load, Dirty Dreams of Lisa Kinkaid, Bitter Sweet Persuasion, The Apartment, The Jackbooth Job

This is one I'm going to think long and hard on (if you'll ignore the obvious pun). I have favorites from all three sections, although I know which way I'm leaning if I had to give an answer right now. Let's see what the rest of you come up with in the meantime.

My thoughts on the poll are that the "middle period" is my favorite. Some of the more recent ones are among Rick's very best (Ballista 3 is maybe my all time fav., and Bitter Sweet Persuasion is a masterpiece), but the middle period had the right balance of nasty low fi-ness and careful filmmaking. Plus "The Reporter" and the "Mince Meat Pie" series are maybe the "hardest" ZFX films in terms of content. They are the most effectively "scary" and "dark" ZFX films anyway, in my opinion. And Monica Moore's short time with ZFX was during that period! Maybe the all time hottest ZFX actress ever. I know she had fake tits, but they were really nice looking fake tits. There are some duds during that period (how could there not be with so many films in such a short time) but I'd have to say that period was the "meanest," which is what I'm about.

Hullo Mothbrad, glad you like the stuff.

The expressiveness takes quite literally hours, partly altering the dolls with an x-acto and partly working poses and angles. I did Slut Collector in an intense 16-hour sprint, both other sets like End of an Amazon and War Crime in the Delta took quite literally a week or so to stage and shoot each. Several folk have suggested that I do a 'tips and tricks' or 'how to' page; the idea appeals, although I also think it might explode the internal consistency of the narrative developed on the page. There's a Russian site which has linked to the site with the comment that the photos are nice, but the page of 'interviews' with the characters is the really hot bit. I suspect, therefore, that explaining too much on the page would ruin the illusion just a little too much.

Language, captions and dialogue: to be completely honest, I don't have much in the way of dialogue in mind when I set up and shoot the scenes. Partly, I think it's the classic porn dialogue problem of 'grunt grunt' alternating with '*hiss* oh yeah baby'. I rather suspect most of the dialogue in the PPP sets would consist of 'take that bitch', 'eeek' and eventually 'glub' or 'ack'. I had one person suggest that what scenes like End of an Amazon needed most was a musical score, and I definitely wracked my brains for a while trying to solve that one -- with no success given the limits of the servers I'm using.

What I am aware of is having some fairly involved back-stories in mind for quite a few scenes. The settings for the two War Crimes sets are pretty obvious; less obvious is the idea that Moorish Princess is set in the 15th century during the final stages of the Spanish Reconquista (although the title and Moorish tile background tried to convey the idea to those who know their mediaeval European history). There are also some consensual scenes that imply some pretty involved relationship and negotiation issues. Most of the really interesting dialogue for Run Through and Traci Gets a Choker would probably have happened before the scene started. The Super-Strap on Slut Snuff Scene is a bit like hearing one half of a telephone conversation; I mean, what the heck is going on there? I have no idea how a scene like that might have come about, but I've had quite an assortment of interesting correspondence containing speculation about Kitti the Killer Switch's motivation and state of mind.

Prostitute's Punishment and Executioner's Girlfriend are sort of episodes in the same storyline. Some whack little village of religious fundamentalists into nasty moralizing capital punishments, a bit along the lines of Peter Greenway's film The Baby of Macon - indeed, I'm still trying to figure out how to do a PPP equivalent of that film's lethal gang-rape ... um ... climax, as it were.

And Gun Nuts is actually a teeny bit politically satirical - like most people on the Eastern side of the Atlantic I find the contemporary US take on the 2nd Amendment a little bemusing.

A couple of other people have suggested speech bubbles like the old '70s porno photo story books. But in the last an analysis, I guess I like leaving the dialogue and stuff like that to the viewer's imagination (and finding out what kinds of readings folk put on the scenes is actually very enjoyable and rewarding in its own right - tho' Finagle knows what that says about my twisted little mind).

S.

Spike, I can't possibly do justice to responding to your post, but just quickly ... don't ruin the illusion. Without 'the illusion', your pic sets are essentially meaningless. I might, when I have a few spare minutes, come up with something of my own and shoot it through to you to show what I was getting at, with regard to captions. My comment was a strictly 'In My Humble Opinion' piece, and I remain amazed that somebody would spend so much time on such a worthwhile hobby. I guess I was inspired by a series of pics called 'Agitator' by Zell that Ralphus hipped me to on another forum.

My vote is for the middle era - the sexiest actresses, the wackiest storylines, and the evilest villains. The comedy aspect also seems to have been pushed to the max in those years. Although I've only seen the later SOB films, the parts I've seen from the first couple scream 'total madness' to me, and I love that fact. War Pigs is beautiful in its ugliness (or is that ugly in its beauty). And Seed ... dear, sweet Seed. A movie I've never seen, never read anything much about, but have seen the promo for, and have dreamed about, obsessed about, and generally erm ... spilled my seed over. I have a feeling that the day I actually get to watch this movie will be a momumental moment in my life.

In the meantime, I'm off to watch 'As Darkness Falls'.

A lot of my favorite ZFX ttles are out of the early period like the Guinea Pigs series, Doc Bondage, The Necklace, etc. Mid-period brought Ballista and Shockwave productions, along with Penelope Pace, slim Chandra, a more mature-looking Lisa and some new FX freedom for Rick. The late-period stuff has some of the old flair about it, but mostly seems to be moving toward straight-up bondage situations (caught in a store, caught in an apartmant etc.) versus the older, weirder sci-fi stuff.

Peace,

Iago

Peace,

Iago

Scout

I love the Shockwave stuff, even when the F/X were beyond cheesy or just downright weird. My two favorite ZFX actresses, Amy Van Allen and Chandra Sweet, were prominent in this period. The clinchers for me would be Liza Cord and Cheerleaders of Peril U.

Curious to know which period Travis Lee prefers ...

Speaking of getting jaded, I've been transferring old videotapes to dvd, and I too am amazed at how bored I am by the old Harmony material. I've stopped transferring that stuff because I know I'll never look at it again. Ah well...

For me, the best divisor is who the model is. Chandra? Top ZFX model of all time, head and shoulders above all the others, for me. Lisa? Sweet. That Oriental babe in Tiffany Twisted (Ralphus, btw, there was a volume 1 and a volume 2 of that film) - excellent. Others whose names I have forgotten, with their tight bodies - wonderful. And, that goes for recent girls, too, like those in the Jackbooth Job - they were beautiful.

My favorite ZFX film of all is the Apartment - it transcended the genre and became art. As I noted at the time, it's the first porn flik I have watched in eons that I did not fast forward through a single second of the movie.

I've got to say, it is hard for me to remember a ZFX film that I did not like. A few of the actresses have had body types that don't really appeal to me (buxom). For me, the beauty of the model is more than half the enjoyment of the film. Chandra had it all - she was gorgeous, she was a trooper putting up with all that bondage, and she was a fun actress to watch, especially when she was playing the co-villain.

zee-ef-ex

However, I could probably defend my decision to start the later ZFX period in 1999, as I was breaking up the periods according to the appearances of some of the major stars from each "era." By 1999, for example, Chandra Sweet and Monica Moore were gone, and so was Penelope Pace (except for an old Penelope clip that was inserted into South of the Border 5).

I would agree that if you divide the periods up according to Rick's output, you get different divisions. Of course, that would mean the current era would have to be known as the Dark Age.

Now to the poll question. I've been going back and forth, and I'm also going to swing over to the Mid-ZFX period, approximately 1995-1998, slightly over the latter-day stuff. The reason that threw me over was the inclusion of two of my favorite ZFX performers, Chandra Sweet and Bryan Dunhill, who were arguably the Best ZFX Victim and Villain, respectively. To me, the villain thing is a slam dunk for Bryan. And as much as I dig Lisa Kinkaid, I think you have to give Chandra the edge, and she was in so many good ZFX vids during that mid period. Not to mention Monica Moore and Penelope Pace, who were always good in every role they were cast in.

The latter-day ZFX era has produced quite a few ambitious titles that I consider ZFX classics (the Ballista and South of the Border series, for instance), but there was so many good titles, so many great scenes in the middle period that I'll have to give it the edge. I think it's quantity over quality in this case. Although I have to agree that all three eras produced some excellent footage that still works for me today, even 10-15 years later.

Bobjones: Okay, you gonna tell us which scene it was in Seed that you consider "Yoowwza"? There were 4 great scenes in that movie, IMO, but if I had to pick one that did it for me, it would be the scene of Lisa spread-eagled on the bed and tortured with the hot comb by Penelope (pic in my Homepage URL). Was I right?

Had to be fun working at ZFX especially with all of the great looking ladies.

Been a fan and have a lot of different videos especially ones with Lisa.

Norman

The other two periods are also good, the middle with Penny Pace and the later period with the very professional production values and hot actresses but the early ZFX is still my favorite.

On another topic, when you put a hood/mask on a woman you remove her humanity. She becomes just a toy that you can do with whatever you wish, just a body to play with.

Wild Bill

Big D. . . why don't you just keep more than one Google account? They are free after all. Just make up some other name and use that for all your porno stuff. That's what "Bobjones" is. I'd never use this name in a way that might trace back to me.

And the second component missing from Seed was threatening dialogue from the villain. I'd have to review it again, but I don't remember Penelope saying anything to Lisa at all (although I do remember her laughing at her quite a bit, which helps a lot). If I recall, she was under some sort of spell after encountering the flower that turned her into a sex-crazed zombie (or some such silly sci-fi plot). Nonetheless, she was a GREAT villain, and the reason I consider this to be the best all-girl bondage flick that Rick ever released. Of course, it helps when you couple her with someone like Lisa Kinkaid, who was one of the all-time great victims in ZFX history. They made an outstanding team.

A Canadian: You love Lisa, and yet I remember you said you didn't like this title much. Can you tell us why, or what it was that didn't work for you? I think your comments were too short to put in the Reviews section, and I don't remember why you gave it a thumbs down.

My review is linked above.

Just be careful when you torture her tits, okay? Otherwise, they might pop.

I agree those two made a great pair ('scuse the pun.) I wish their roles had been switched in Viral Load. Much as I like Lisa, she doesn't really work as a dom.

Travis Lee: Thanks for the reply. It's always nice to hear from those in the business.

One of the categories was Most over-rated ZFX DVD release of 2005, and the winner in that category was Seed.

As best I can recall, Seed was a disappointment to me because I generally found it boring. I didn't think much of Penelope as the villain (I did like her as the villain in Miss Ballista), and nothing really stood out for me in this one.

But who knows? Maybe I was just having a bad hair day, or something. I suppose I could try renting Seed again and writing a full review.

Maybe I was just having a bad hair day, or something.

I never have a bad hair day. I make sure Aria fluffs up my afro for 15 minutes every day. With her tits. It's very erotic.

I suppose I could try renting Seed again and writing a full review.

Yeah, I think you should. Because you missed the boat the first time. Even Rick Masters put it as one of his Ten Best titles when we had that poll back in 1999. Personally, it's one of the few all-girl ZFX vids that I even cared for (not blaming Rick; most girl-girl bondage vids don't do it for me). Or maybe it's just not your snort of coke, I dunno. This one was pretty torture-heavy and I know you're a rape man.

Brutus: Since you mentioned Miss Ballista and since we're on sort of a ZFX roll right now, this is a good time to unveil an exclusive gift from Rick. Beginning tonight, and for the next two weeks, we're going to be showcasing never-before-seen stills from all 3 of the Ballista movies. And these are some beautiful, sharp grabs from the original DVD print. I think you'll all really enjoy these. And be sure and thank RM for his contributions.

I don't know. It's not like there's a big improvement or deterioration between the three designated time segments. The later benefits from digital video, but has fewer titles. I've only seen a smattering of ZFX, from all 3 time periods, and all of what I've seen have had good parts and not so good parts. But really I haven't seen enough to discern a preference.

Of what I've seen, favorite models include Brandy, Chandra, Kim, Alison, Victoria, Jackilyn and Penelope.

Definitely I loved the Ballista series..the 2nd one was my favorite I think...the way Lisa was tied arms over head and her legs spread wide her whole body dripping with sweat...damn hot stuff!

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I had some computer problems for the last 2 weeks which messed up things for me pretty good.

xxx Groups appears to be dead and not coming back.

My Google group might as well be dead because it won't let me post to it, back in January I changed the settings that no one but myself could post because of all kinds of spam being posted to the group, in fact it was Ralphus who was really ticked off with that garbage filling his mailbox. Anyway the spam stopped, but I can't post either. No big deal the bandwidth was a real problem.

So right now that leaves me with just the pay site "Uncle Scoopy's Fun House" where all the new stuff is posted.

Now I can't believe that I am saying this because Yahoo deleted my groups 3 different times, bit I guess I will try it again. I have created the group and will post the link here as soon as I get some content uploaded, probably within the next 2 weeks.

Stay Tuned.

Hank

I know it's very "PC" of me, but statements like this worry me. I've met real-life women who've felt the pain, who've really suffered, who have screamed for help. While we enjoy consensual BDSM (by models who are into it, even if they're portraying non-consensual BDSM), there's a lot of jerks (and that's being nice) out there who don't get the idea of fantasy.

Without context, it's hard to see where goodhands fits.

Hank Hobbs: Wow, glad to see you back. I was actually getting worried about you, since you hadn't responded to my last 3 e-mails dating back from 3 months ago. Glad to see you're still around, even if the Google group appears to be dead. I hate to say it also, but Yahoo groups have the best design, so I welcome you coming back there. When they shitcan your group, just fuck 'em and start a new one, like everyone else does. There's nothing illegal about your photo sets.

jhlipton: I wouldn't worry. Goodhands was a first-time poster, so nobody really knows his motivations, but this group is about fantasy and I suspect he was just getting into the spirit of things. God knows I've said much worse than he has on a regular basis. Take a look around and we have whole pages devoted to rape, electro-torture, whipping, you name it. We're about the most non-PC discussion site around in terms of the fucked-up shit we talk about, all of it directed towards women as victims. To my knowledge, none of us would ever hurt a woman in real life. It's fantasy.

This brings up a good poll question. Let's make this an official poll.

GIMP POLL:
Do you think someone who enjoys extreme bondage videos must have a deep-seeded hatred toward women? Maybe just a little bit? If not, why would anyone enjoy seeing someone tied up and abused?

Don't be afraid of opening up with what you really think. Remember, we're not PC here, so don't hold back. If everyone is honest and participates, this could be a real interesting poll.

Regarding the question of misogyny - I absolutely love women. They're my favourite company in general, and not just for the fact that I might fuck them or tie them up at some point. Just how I am. So how can I be into the most ridiculously violent and degrading porn that exists? That's a question that I can't know the answer to BUT, as a person I corresponded with a while ago once put it,
YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH A HARD ON.

Nobody's fantasies are PC - and you'll find that applies just as much to women as to men. And I was thinking very hard about this the other day after speaking with a friend of mine who thinks I'm a freak for enjoying seeing girls tied up, yet is himself a person who has many issues with women ... those of us who are thoughtful enough (and I'm speaking generally) to post here, have a greater understanding of our relationship towards women. Whether it's Ralphus having a clearly loving (if violent and overtly sexual, in a dwarf fucks sex goddess sense) relationhip with Aria, or if it's most of us loving to watch those films showing Damsels not just in distress, but seriously being fucked over, or whether we like to fantasize about those things that society has told us we're not allowed to, it all comes down to the same thing. Sex is about what turns us on, not what will give us PC points.

And sometimes sex is awful and violent and degenerate ... but again, there are just as many women as men (maybe not 1:1, but a pretty close proportion) who enjoy that thrill, that sense of danger, that sense of violence and vileness that takes sex out of the everyday and places it firmly into the realm of the otherworldly, or, what we call GIMP material.

I genuinely used to be ashamed of my fantasies, until I met other people, particularly women, who understood that it wasn't a question of HATRED (which is mundane and pointless and stupid), but rather an issue of LUST (which is one of our great drives as human beings).

One of the major things that I love about Rick Masters, Dan Hawke, PD, etc, is that they aren't pretending to be what they're not. They are making art that stimulates us because we like to see a particular sexual situation. That happens to be men dominating women. I would probably not be far wrong in saying that most people here would not get the same charge out of seeing a woman, even a beautiful woman, dressed in fetish gear whipping a man. At the same time, I think we all understand the INSTINCT behind those images - it is all down to LUST and CONTROL. Even if it is not our kink, it is still just something that gets someone off. And that's alright too.

I read goodhand's posting as purely a one liner that reflected the GIMP world view. Because I love women, I also had my mind click for a moment on the fact that maybe this guy wasn't up my alley. But again - some of us have fantasies that will never be politically correct, or even morally right. And some of us will continue to want to see these images, and read these words, and feel these feelings for as long as we're able to feel something sexual. And for that reason, I'm more than willing to give him not just the benefit of the doubt, but the keys to the fucking city. For if it wasn't for women suffering and screaming (in art and literature and film), the world would be a less wholesome place for many of us here.

For the poll ... I agree with jhlipton ... there is a fine line between fantasy and reality ... and knowing the difference ... that is where the real-life psycho sexual killers fail in this distinction and blur the line with reality that usually doesn't end pretty. This is what sets us S&M/B&D aficionados apart ... we can let the professionals do the work and enjoy fantasy or we can participate in elaborate scenes with concentual partners and enjoy fantasy. The fantasy can be as hard as the bottom can take ... can be a non-consequential scene ... even a torture scene ... to each its own libido in preference. No deep hatred for women here ... just a primo torture rape fantasy aspect that stays on the fantasy side.

I am looking for two video clips if anyone can help me, I think? They are Tyler Scot performing,

1. She is hogtied on a table, wearing a pink dress her Master cuts off the dress, then takes her shoes and spanks her ass and feet, in turn.

2. She is also on a table, she has a tongue bar tied to the table and a log leaning on the string. Her Master also plays with an aerosol can and a match lol (fire play)

If any one recognizes these clips I would love to know where I can get them.

Ps: I think they were advertised as a "Live Feed 2001". Dan Hawke could have been involved They were Insex clips ..

Thanking you

Speaking as one who's talked about women being beaten, raped and strangled to death, I got to agree.

Do you think someone who enjoys extreme bondage videos must have a deep-seeded hatred toward women? Maybe just a little bit? If not, why would anyone enjoy seeing someone tied up and abused?

I've asked that about myself several times. I don't think I do. But maybe a bit, subconsciously? Hard to say.

mothbrad: I genuinely used to be ashamed of my fantasies

Me too. I once threw away a whole passel of snuff comics and videos because I felt that someone who hates real-life violence couldn't like this stuff. But everytime I saw a woman get shot or strangled on TV, I would get such a woody, that I had to admit to myself that this was an integral part of who I am. Now when looking for erotic material, I look for non-GIMP films (teens, parties, black girls, parties of black teens) more than GIMP, but I still love the GIMP stuff. Only the parties are somewhat PC, but the teens and black girls don't have the feeling of "take it, bitch, suffer" that GIMP stuff does.

For if it wasn't for women suffering and screaming (in art and literature and film), the world would be a less wholesome place for many of us here.

This is true, but can we acknowledge that "if it wasn't for women suffering and screaming (in real-life), the world would be a more wholesome place for many of us here? I'd like to think so.

NO, I don't think they have a deep-seeded hatred. Isaac and I have talked about this many times because I sometimes get worried that creating rape films is not what I should be doing, morally and ethically. But the fact is that men (and women) who enjoy rape films, or extreme bondage, don't necessarily act them out in real life. Countries such as Germany, which have a lot of extreme bondage, have a lower rape statistic than prudish countries like the U.S. with its repressed sexuality.

Isaac told me he once saw a statistic that claimed that 90+% men have violent sexual fantasies or desires. Men are agressive by nature and genetics. You can't help it. You're born that way. It doesn't mean you hate women any more than I hate myself because I have rape fantasies.

I think it's the same as the way people enjoy violent movies, like war movies. We all seem to enjoy gory, realistic war scenes with bodies blown apart, etc. Does that mean I like war itself and want to perpetuate war? NO! A part of me must enjoy watching people being killed or I wouldn't watch these kinds of movies. Yet, I am certainly opposed to killing and even war in real life. It is FANTASY for me. Perhaps it appeals to my natural genetic instinct for violence.

I think someone who watched a woman be raped in REAL LIFE and enjoyed it and did nothing (or even helped out...) does have a serious problem OBVIOUSLY. The same would be for real life murder. Just because I enjoy murder movies doesn't mean I want to see murder in real life.

I think this is the balance between being human (with all our animal instincts and genes) and the part of being human that uses our minds and has found morality and ethics. We use film and other forms of medium to address these basic needs, but they only reflect that we, after all, humans evolved from and related to animals. The fact that we distinguish between real life and entertainment is what makes us different from the animals.

Natasha

OK, so now we're hit with a poll that really calls for us to look into ourselves and what makes us tick. Cool. Take a gander at the kind of posts you see here. Most of them seem to be from people who are articulate, thoughtful, dare I say it even "deep thinkers". We are not a bunch of drooling sex-o-philes who yank at their members as a manner of self expression.

It has been said many times that the brain is the largest sex organ and I heartily concur with that theory. On a one to one basis and in general I love women. Honest. They are superior to men in almost every way. Smarter, more mature, and infinitely better looking. That's why I still read Playboy. I'm 50 years old and my heart still flutters when a pretty young thing looks my way and gives me a smile. I still hold the door open for a lady and will probably do so til the day I die.

But... I as much as I love women as people, when I view them as OBJECTS, I can't help loving to see them trussed up, the ropes digging into their flesh, flesh that's glistening with sweat, a gag filling up their mouth, their eyes wide open and pleading for mercy. I guess that's the difference. Yeah, my handle is Glatman, a serial killer who liked to tie up women before he raped and murdered them, but in reality I wouldn't hurt any girl unless it was that dirty word...consensual. I think most of us (I guess there must be a few lurking loons reading this site) love women but like to abuse objects. Women are people. Objects are tools.

Happy Gimping!

My basic answer is no. I don't have a deep seething hatred of women in general because I have a predelictiction for bondage or forced sex fantasies no more than I like the idea of all men being beaten because I enjoy a good boxing match.

If these women were doing it against their will and were genuinely being tortured, there is no way I could feel good looking at their pain. However since these are fantasies and we're looking with willing subjects who know the risks, I can revel in it, because it's not real. No one is being hurt who doesn't want to be.

I think that separation between reality and fantasy is what makes the difference.

Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

The effect is astounding: a patient starts seeing only bright colors in the surrounding world.

Russian scientists from the city of Novosibirsk, Siberia, made a sensational report at the international conference devoted to new methods of treatment and rehabilitation in narcology. The report was called “Methods of painful impact to treat addictive behavior.”

Siberian scientists believe that addiction to alcohol and narcotics, as well as depression, suicidal thoughts and psychosomatic diseases occur when an individual loses his or her interest in life. The absence of the will to live is caused with decreasing production of endorphins - the substance, which is known as the hormone of happiness. If a depressed individual receives a physical punishment, whipping that is, it will stir up endorphin receptors, activate the “production of happiness” and eventually remove depressive feelings.

Russian scientists recommend the following course of the whipping therapy: 30 sessions of 60 whips on the buttocks in every procedure. A group of drug addicts volunteered to test the new method of treatment: the results can be described as good and excellent.

Doctor of Biological Sciences, Sergei Speransky, is a very well known figure in Novosibirsk. The doctor became one of the authors of the shocking whipping therapy. The professor used the self-flagellation method to cure his own depression; he also recovered from two heart attacks with the help of physical tortures too.

”The whipping therapy becomes much more efficient when a patients receives the punishment from a person of the opposite sex. The effect is astounding: the patient starts seeing only bright colors in the surrounding world, the heartache disappears, although it will take a certain time for the buttocks to heal, of course,” Sergei Speransky told the Izvestia newspaper.

We are not a bunch of drooling sex-o-philes who yank at their members as a manner of self expression.

Actually, I am.

In any event, regarding the poll, I don't know there's much I can add to the comments already posted. Like many of my fellow GIMPers, I believe the answer is no.

It's interesting. One of the issues at the heart of this debate is how much of our sexuality is determined by nature vs. nurturing. While our experiences may shape our sexual preferences, it is generally believed that some of our sexual identity is the result of genetics. For example, it is widely accepted that a person's sexual orientation is genetically determined. When it comes to bondage, you might ask the same question -- do past experiences cause someone to become a GIMPer, or is that just the way a person's brain is wired? It's near impossible to know the answer.

As well, the elephant in the room, as people like to say, is probably the debate about what's 'normal.' While we GIMPers tend to think of ourselves as deviants, I'm not sure that 'normal' sexual behavior is as normal as some people think.

I would argue that some accepted practices are not normal. For example, I think it is abnormal for Catholic priests to think they can commit to a vow of celibacy, and the results have been tragic.

But what about your typical, everyday lives? In our society, we think monogamy is normal. You meet a nice person, marry that person, and are expected to stay monogamous to that person until the day you die. That's the standard, but is that really normal? Certainly, many people (hello, Bill Clinton) have had some troubles living up to that standard.

Over time, we may need to rethink many of our views about what is normal and what is deviant. In the meantime, I will go with the majority vote (so far) and say that if you are a good person and you don't wish to harm others, you are probably OK. Your dark fantasies are likely no worse than the fantasies of those Xbox gamers who like to shoot at their enemies and blow things up.

Speaking for myself, I would say that I may have just a slight hatred toward women, because it seems women seem to gravitate towards "THE BAD BOYS"

The worse these guys treat women, the better the women like it. Leaving deserving, nice guys such as myself out in the cold!

So, bottom line is that any female who will put up with an abusive boyfriend/husband apparently doesn't mind the abuse, and, in my opinion at least, DESERVES EVERYTHING SHE GETS!

No, not in the least.

Fantasy is fantasy. For most men (and women) that's all it is. A man who fantasizes about tied up women no more wants to hurt one in real life than a woman who has a rape fantasies wants to be raped in real life.

I had often thought about whether my fantasies came from some childhood incident, but I've been turned on by damsels in distress ever since I can remember. So my GIMP tendencies are innate. They are not related to any hatred of women. And if hating women was also part of our nature, wouldn't we have died out long ago?

This poll brings back a weird memory. I had tied a girlfriend spread-eagle to my bed (consensual, of course) and she asked me if I was doing that because I hated her. Nothing could have been further from the truth. But her question did make me think about it. I enjoyed Natasha Flade's post but I would like to hear the opinions of other females on this topic as well. Come on out you female lurkers!

Whipping therapy: Sounds like a good way to spread some happiness in the bedroom.

goodhands' post: Every so often on this forum, I see an unfamiliar stagename with a short misogynist message that doesn't follow any thread or is not put into any context. It's a bit disturbing, especially if the poster doesn't explain himself if requested to do so.

Hank

Title: Seed

Stars: Lisa Kinkaid and Penelope Pace

Director: Rick Masters

Running time: 75 minutes

I may end up in the GIMP-land dog house for saying this, but I still don't think Seed ranks among the best of the ZFX movies. It has its moments, but unless you're into female-on-female domination, much of it is pretty ho-hum.

The movie is like a sexed-up version of a 1950s sci-fi movie. It features an alien plant that shoots its mind-controlling seed into a big-hootered young woman, Penelope Pace, causing Penelope to turn into a zombie-like villain who then tortures her beautiful roommate, ZFX superstar Lisa Kinkaid. Naturally, tanned and pretty Lisa looks as terrific as ever -- as the Hollywood types would say, she rises above the material.

The action starts with Penelope alone in her apartment, in her bedroom. She is on her bed and has pulled down her nightie and panties so that her tits and pussy are exposed. She is clearly into bondage -- she has handcuffed her wrists together and her ankles together, and has tied a rope around her neck that is attached to the bed's headboard. Having nicely bound herself, she is working over her pussy with a carrot-shaped vibrator, while at the same time her mouth sucks on a large, black dildo. However, her fun is interrupted by the arrival downstairs of her roommate, Lisa, who has returned from a nighttime jog, wearing a one-piece purple bathing suit and some lightly striped jogging shorts. Lisa has found a weird-looking flower, with a stem that includes a strange bulb-like middle (it sort of looks like a green rubber version of a metal ball), and she wants to show it to Penelope. Penelope unties herself, restores the panties and nightie to their correct positions, and comes down to look at the flower.

After some brief chit chat, Penelope heads back to her room to read a book, while Lisa decides to take a bath. Actually, before she gets into the bath, Lisa spends some time in front of a full-length mirror, admiring her naked body and masturbating (who can blame her?). Penelope, meanwhile, falls asleep in her bed -- and that's when the demon plant springs into action.

The round bulb part breaks free from the rest of the flower, and bounces up to Penelope's bedroom. It rolls beside her bed, and starts releasing vine-like tentacles that wrap themselves around Penelope, tying her arms and legs to the bed. The tentacles lower the top part of Penelope's nightie, and more tentacles wrap themselves tightly around Penelope's big, enhanced breasts. Other tentacles wrap around Penelope's throat, causing her to awaken, gagging and choking. Another tentacle forces itself into Penelope's mouth, while yet another tentacle -- with a pink, penis-like head on its front -- is jammed into Penelope's pussy.

Lisa, meanwhile, is in the bathtub, feeling up her own tits and body and feeling compelled to keep masturbating (again, who can blame her?). The action then cuts back to Penelope on the bed -- the tentacles have disappeared, but the evil seed has clearly been planted. There are dark rings around Penelope's eyes, and she looks like a zombie. In an almost trance-like state, Penelope puts her nightie back on, gets up and heads over to the bathroom and Lisa.

Lisa is still busy frigging herself in the bathtub, and doesn't initially see Penelope arrive. Penelope, standing beside the bathtub, lifts her nightie and starts some nubbin rubbin' of her own. When she lets out a moan, she startles Lisa, who suddenly sees Penelope and wonders what's happening. Spaced-out Penelope then steps into the tub and starts pushing Lisa's head under the water, nearly trying to drown her. Lisa fights and struggles but her head remains pushed underneath the water.

Penelope finally lifts Lisa's head out of the water, and pulls Lisa's face into her chest. Lisa is then forced to suck and lick Penelope's massive jugs, and then Lisa's head is pushed back under the water, where Lisa continues to struggle until she eventually passes out.

Penelope strips off her own clothes and then the naked villain drags the naked Lisa across to the floor and to a bedroom. Lisa is tied on her back on a bed, with her arms and legs tied to bedposts so that she is tied spread eagled on the bed. Penelope uses a black nylon with a red ball gag in the middle to gag Lisa's mouth, and then spends some time enjoying Lisa's treasures. As Lisa squirms and whimpers, Penelope sucks on Lisa's tits and Penelope then feels up Lisa's body, including some moments where Penelope's left hand tugs on Lisa's pussy fur. If nothing else, Penelope is a convincing lesbo -- she even takes a few moments to kiss and tongue Lisa's left ear. Penelope finishes her warm-up act by running an unplugged hot comb along Lisa's body.

Without a doubt, the next scene is the best one in the movie. Penelope plugs in the hot comb and turns it on, and threatens to use it on Lisa. Sexy Lisa struggles as the hot comb is waved just above her, and then Penelope starts burning Lisa with the hot comb, pressing it into Lisa's tits and across her waist and body. With the gag muffling her squeals, spread eagled Lisa squirms and twists about in pain, and her head shakes back and forth, as the comb leaves red burn marks on various parts of her body.

After a few minutes of working over Lisa's outer side, Penelope pushes the hot comb into Lisa's pussy. Lisa's back arches off the bed in agony, and she writhes about, her hands clawing at the bed, as her pussy is scalded. The torture continues for a few minutes, with Lisa continuing to arch her back in pain, until Penelope finally yanks the hot comb out of Lisa's pussy. A smiling Penelope sniffs and licks the comb as Lisa lies flat on the bed, her body glistening in sweat.

In the next scene, Lisa is still on the bed, and handcuffs tied to a chain are linked to each of her ankles. Her hands are also cuffed behind her back, and a leather strap binds a towel into her mouth as a gag. Penelope appears and forces Lisa to get on her knees, with Lisa's face buried into the bed, so that her ass is sticking up in the air. Penelope uses a belt to whip Lisa's ass, and the chuckling Penelope also spanks Lisa's butt. Lisa overacts a bit in this scene, as none of the shots seem particularly harsh. Anyway, when the whipping is done, Penelope moves her face in to dine on Lisa's muff (shot from an angle that shows nothing explicit). Lisa seems to more or less accept Penelope's tongue action -- I guess it's better than the other kind of licking. However, Penelope eventually grabs Lisa's hair and moves Lisa into an upright position on her knees, and more belt shots are delivered to Lisa's backside.

Lisa is next seen on a staircase, seated on the steps with her hands and feet tied to the hand rails above her. The hand rails curve in such a way that Lisa's legs are essentially spread wide open. Ropes have been used to bind Lisa's tits and torso, and one thin rope runs through her pussy. As well, Lisa's mouth is now gagged with yellow duct tape. Penelope arrives with some clothespins, and attaches them to Lisa's nipples and pussy lips. Penelope torments Lisa a bit by tweaking each of the clothespins, and then gets down to some serious licking of Lisa's twat and breasts. Whimpering Lisa looks super sexy here, throwing her head back and forth as Penelope slurps on her muff and then tongues her tits.

The movie cuts to a scene with Lisa tied to a chair near a fireplace. Along with the ropes that bind Lisa's hands and legs to the chair, a leather strap is used to tightly tie Lisa's arms to her body, and another leather strap has tied a green ball gag into her mouth. Penelope pulls some steel tongs out of the nearby fireplace and applies the hot tongs to Lisa's body, particularly around her tits. A sizzle sound effect is used each time the tong touches Lisa, and lovely Lisa moans and squirms as she is once again burned. Overall, though, this scene isn't particularly convincing.

In the final torture scene, Lisa is tied face forward to a small table. A rope binds Lisa's neck close to the table, and her thighs are tied to the table legs, with her legs then spread back behind her. Thumb cuffs have been used to bind Lisa's hands behind her back. Penelope shows up and uses a scarf to gag Lisa's mouth. Then, with the help of some Vaseline, Penelope inserts a large wooden dildo into Lisa's ass. Lisa squirms and moans as the dildo is wiggled about inside her butt hole, and Penelope also spanks Lisa's ass for good measure. The action jumps forward a bit, as some black duct tape has locked the dildo into Lisa's butt, and Penelope is squatted in front of Lisa's face. With Lisa's gag removed, Lisa is forced to eat Penelope, bringing a panting and moaning Penelope to complete satisfaction.

Lisa then awakens on her bed, fully dressed. Apparently, it was all a dream ... or maybe not, as an alien spaceship disappears from behind the ladies' home.

My grade: B-

Lisa Kinkaid is one of America's national treasures. She's beautiful, sexy, and always delivers a credible performance. You can't really go wrong with any of her movies. Having said that, there isn't much in Seed that hasn't been done better elsewhere, and I didn't care for naked Penelope as the villain. In my view, a scene like the one where Lisa's ass gets whipped with the belt would have been much better if the shots had been delivered by a dude like Joseph Marx. Seed is a fine little movie but nothing special.

jhlipton: This is true, but can we acknowledge that "if it wasn't for women suffering and screaming (in real-life), the world would be a more wholesome place for many of us here? I'd like to think so.

That seems to me to go without saying. I've been around actual real life women who are going through suffering, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fantasy side. Even if it echoes the same sort of situations that I can get turned on by in fantasy. Sometimes that makes me uncomfortable, but as I'm more aware of myself, that happens less and less. Some of my fantasies would make you blink, and I know that some of yours do the same to me - but if we met each other, we'd likely get on great, even if (or maybe especially if) there were some women there as our equals, just having fun and talking.

Natasha, thanks for giving us a female perspective, and for speaking up for the (minority but still existing) number of women who come to this site and read it. We are all individuals, and you don't have to represent anyone more than yourself, or you and your partner, but even though there is one school of feminism that would peg you as a 'self hating woman', in reality, you're just like the rest of us ... muddling along the best you can while getting your kicks where and when you can. And (in your case), helping the rest of us to get our kicks as well :)

Glatman, the choice of your name means something different here than it would if you changed your name to that in real life. It's a persona that has a particular meaning, just like Mothbrad is not the same as who I am in day to day life (although I stand by, and believe in) everything I write). Your point about 'Objects' is a really interesting one. However Travis, Joseph Marx, Rick (as an actor), Dave Darke, etc are just as objectified in the movies as Penny, Lisa, Chandra, etc. The Travis and Rick that post here have nothing to do with their film personas - the ones here are real, fun people - their characters are evil cartoons. One of the reasons I like coming here so much is that this is completely understood by everyone who posts here.

Ick - looks like I've spilled another essay. Thanks for making it this far - you win the door prize!

It part of human nature to a deeply ingrained part of our phschye and thinking, cant negate it or deny it, its us male & female alike..............

Cruel Jailer

C'est la vie. I don't hate the movie -- I mean, a B- is still a decent grade. I'm just not as impressed as everyone else. While Seed is not in my list of top 10 ZFX movies, I think any film that stars Lisa is worth checking out.

Well, as the saying goes, "In general you can't generalize" - but in general I would say the vast majority of guys don't hate the chicks they want to tie up.

I also see many who agree with me that chopping up the chicks is a turn-off that Hollywood seems to get in a rut with.. Once she's chopped up the game is over, no more curvy bits to play with, no more sounds of distress, and that pussy is gonna get cold real quick..

From my personal perspective, tying up a chick is about taking control of a creature that I consider to be a powerful creature, and one that is often dangerous.

Off topic a bit, I see Hollywood even had to fuck with the new Hitcher movie, just to be politically correct.

It just didn't have the same impact this time.

They really got me going with the original when the girl was the one tied between the truck and the trailer. I sat there watching the chick getting stretched by the truck, the ropes creaking with stress, and my mind was racing on the many ways they could stop the guy from killing her; - and yet at the same time I really enjoyed her plight..

When he pulled her apart I can remember sitting there in a state of shock. I was "SO" pissed at those stupid cops for not using the options they had to save her life.

So I guess that if I hated women I would have been overjoyed that she got ripped apart.

Now I'm sort of thinking, what a fucking waste. She could have been re-used as the stretchy girl over and over again if she was still in one piece, and boy could I have had fun teasing and tormenting her.

Gotta go, have guests.

Cheers

Gord

I have enjoyed reading and view bondage material for many years (20+) and do not desire to hurt or have a hatred of females.

But that does not mean I would not like to find a female who loves it......

Krispy

"must have"...no, I don't believe that. (This is kind of a leading question, isn't it? Especially on a forum like this one.)

Maybe just a little bit?

How does one hate something a little bit? If it's a little bit, it's not hate.

If not, why would anyone enjoy seeing someone tied up and abused?

Cause seeing a hot woman tied up and abused can be stimulating, intriguing, and a turn-on for a person, man or woman, who has that sexual fetish. As a voyeur of bondage video or (in real-life roleplay), liking the model/actress/woman playing the victim, being attracted to her, being grateful that she's willing to perform bondage scenes or play, makes it much more fun to watch (or participate in) than if one hated her.

Jean

A Canadian: First off, another great review, as usual. From reading your review, I'm remembering all the scenes in Seed, and like Mothbrad, it just makes me want to see the movie even more. Even though I never officially reviewed it online, this is one I gave a solid grade of B+ when I first saw it. Once it got past the sci-fi plant scene and moved onto Penelope going after Lisa, it was great scene after great scene. Everyone who knows me knows I'm a fan of burning torture, so to see her burned first with a hot comb while tied spreadeagled to the bed, then tied to a chair and burned with hot fireplace tongs, how could I not like this movie? I agree that latter scene could have been more convincing, but I appreciated the effort, and also how Rick used cigarette smoke a few times to simulate her pussy burning.

Plus the clothespin torture while tied to the stairs scene was great, and the finale with Lisa being plundered up the ass with the wooden dildo (looked like a wooden salt shaker to me) was a hot scene, too. So even though you gave it just a so-so grade, I think you ultimately will end up selling the movie to people who haven't seen it once they read your descriptions. And that's why reviews like these are so important to the bondage crowd, since they let us know what to expect before we fork over our money. Based on what you wrote, this is one that's worth getting. So I thank you for that.

Your review has been added to the Reviews section at the link above.

Do you think someone who enjoys extreme bondage videos must have a deep-seeded hatred toward women? Maybe just a little bit? If not, why would anyone enjoy seeing someone tied up and abused?

Hey, maybe it was a leading question, as Scribbler stated, but I'm no lawyer. I think that's a question a lot of people, especially those who are NOT into bondage, would probably ask. I don't feel I hate anyone, but I do think that the act of tying someone up and inflicting pain of some sort, or raping her, is not something you do to someone you love. I think a so-called "normal" person (or whatever is considered normal in our society) sees a pretty girl walking along the street and he imagines wanting to have sex with her. I see a pretty girl walking along the street and the first thing I think is how hot she would look if she were tied up and gagged with duct tape and suffering whatever abuse I dish out. I may never act on it, but I'm objectifying her right away as a victim.

Is it hatred? I don't think so. I don't hate her; I don't even know her. But I think hating the object, the woman, makes the fantasy stronger. I don't know how many times I've laughed out loud with an evil cackle while watching a bondage film, or yelled out "Yeah, get her!" as I saw a woman being raped or tortured onscreen. It's disturbing. And the cuter and more attractive the girl, the more I enjoyed seeing her suffer. I should be wanting to love her and kiss her, and instead I want to see her in pain. That's just not right. So is it maybe deep-seeded hatred? I don't know. I think the best answer is what Mothbrad stated: You can't argue with a hard-on!

Keep stating your opinions; this is great stuff.

The line in it that has stuck with me the most is '... when people ask me what my orientation is, I tell them, "I'm a sadomasochist."'

Do you think someone who enjoys extreme bondage videos must have a deep-seeded hatred toward women? Maybe just a little bit? If not, why would anyone enjoy seeing someone tied up and abused?

Very interesting poll that brought me here. Speaking for myself, no I don't hate women, some of my best friends are women (and 4 of my best "playmates" ) Why would I enjoy it? Because, in my case, that is what my playmates wanted.

I see a couple of posters I recognize, but for those that don't know me, my nick is Nightposter, I have messed around with drawings featuring Damsels in Distress in Uniform for over 10 years now. My art was originally based on role play fantasies with four lovely ladies back in the '80's.

One, who for posting purposes I have named Kim, could have made a great model for ZFX or PD's vids. She wanted it tight, inescapable, and rough. I was happy to please her and act out her fantasies. The internet as we now use it, didn't exist back then. We'd watch movies or TV, see a scene and decide we could play it out better, then do so. Often our games were supposed to be fatal, but of course that would limit any future play time.

I do believe there are those who do hate women, and hopefully these vids are a release for them, not a primer for them to go out and duplicate.

Hatred is something that drives you to murder....bondage is something that drives you to sex. One destroys life while the other creates it......

I'd say that qualifies it as an act of love...not hate.

The most recent Powershotz release has Lola tied up and fucked. Gimpers buy 2 dvds get 3rd free!

The Girl Next Door: There's a trailer available at Bloody Disgusting (above URL) and a fairly long but glowing review. Maybe A Canadian wrote it :-)

I doubt I could get turned on by this movie, as the girl is way too young and it's a true story. But if you want to see something truly disturbing, this sounds about right.

From the review: Upon walking out of the theater at the end, I have to say, having read the book, it’s a near dead on adaptation that will bring the book to life for those that have read it as well. The in-your-face power of GND will take many aback, and taboo-wise, I’m absolutely shocked with what they managed to get past an R rating.

And to make it clear, let me please ask you all something: How many of you would buy a video, where in an empty room a dressed woman is being tortured by one or two men without we the spectators know what is all about? I guess we would like to see how the woman is being captured, and taking to the dungeon. The dungeon should be somehow (each one of us has a different point of view about) the women should be undressed and then abused. Well, foreplay, the right atmosphere and enviroment....So it’s all about sex, but in some different way. Sorry but that’s the best I can say with my poor English. I hope you get my point.

Bye

eisenkette

Do you think someone who enjoys extreme bondage videos must have a deep-seeded hatred toward women? Maybe just a little bit? If not, why would anyone enjoy seeing someone tied up and abused?

I have heard that times before and know that there is nothing to back it up. The tied up part anyway. Abuse would have to be defined more.

I would like to propose to visitors to this forum and long-time members as well that the purpose of the bondage is like when cats or other animals hold onto a moving object. The thrill is in the hunt and once the hunt gets the blood moving, its completes the action to have and keep the object of capture all to yourself. The gal can't escape and its fun to let her try or to tell her she can't and watch her struggle anyways.

This is only fun if she enjoys struggling as well or not being able to move. Its the Ultimate in selfishness and its a very intense way of telling your tied up love-victim that You want them So bad that no one else can have them and that they are going to stay tied up so that you can have them all to yourself. Its a way of asserting your hunger for them, letting them know that You want them in a primal hunger kind of way. You gag them so that they can't protest or make noise to be found and that it gives your voice more power. They are "forced" to listen to what you have to say, and boy do you have some interesting things to say to them!

Having a blindfold is a way of making the bound object of attraction focus on your voice and especially your touch. The blindfold filters out any visual distractions and makes the tied up person physically and auditorially dependent upon you for stimulus. Again, you REALLY have a point to make and want them to know that you are their sole source of communication, physical touch and pleasurable stimulus. People enjoy knowing and feeling physically that someone wants them very badly and if they absorb that feeling and idea to the extreme extent that bondage-lovers can give, it hits the point even more potently home.

You have the tied-up persons undivided attention and they aren't going to walk away from you, ignore you, avoid you, stop listening to you, or find someone else, (unless thats part of the fantasy is multiple bondagers/fantasy kidnappers). They certainly are going to look at you or take notice of you when your present your feelings and communication to them.

Its also fun for the person doing the tying to know that they can give 100% of themselves to their desired person without the distractions of daily life and to have that communication have a deep and lasting impact. Its the most efficient communication and there's no doubt that you mean what you are doing and saying to them...

I hope that makes sense to everybody and Im interested in any different takes on the current, interesting Poll question.

I get a enourmous wood at ladies' feet, so there is another reason why don't hate women!

STEVE: I'm going to rejoin your site soon, perhaps this weekend! You have some hot hogties there! And some ticklish soles, to add! He he!

The long answer is more complicated. I have thought a lot about it and come up with a theory. There is a thrill, perhaps perverse, in doing something naughty. During Prohibition drinking of alcohol actually increased. Non-drinkers began to drink simply because they found going to a speakeasy to be exciting. So what could be more exciting than fantasizing about harming or even destroying the thing you treasure the most? We like what we like in fantasy material because we adore women.

I know some true man-hating lesbians and some women-hating gay men. Neither group fantasizes about harming the object of their hate. They don't fantasize about them in any shape or form. Or, if they do, not in a sexual manner.

If you want to get in touch with your true prejudices (that hate-a-little concept Ralphus spoke of) and do a little self-examination, consider the types of women you don't fantasize about. Some here don't want to see victims with tattoos and breast enhancement. I am sure it isn't because they prefer these women and want them set aside as something special they don't hate as much as other women. This very observation makes it clear that our choice of portrayed victim is based on what we love, not what we hate.

Jefferson

This question is obviously something that bothered me for a long time. As some of you may have known, I've quit the Forum back in the day, after dating a real-life rape victim for a while and going through all sorts of conflicting feelings that eventually just made me feel too guilty to continue. Nowadays, I've mellowed out a bit, and my tastes are not as "extreme" as they used to be. I still watch simulated sex scenes sometimes, including yours, Natasha (thanks so much for participating, by the way), but my main preferences are initial capture or re-capture HOM scenes, Chloro scenes, and fondle/spank scenes. I frequent some of the clips4sale stores and other niche producers, such as Mark Turner and Steve Villa (aka Girl Next Door Bondage). And the vocal performance of the actress continues to be as important for me as ever.

To answer the question is an resolute "no" (actually, I co-authored the disclaimer on this website). I've always had great sympathy for all types of women, and has been something of a feminist/egalitarian myself. I've even always had an easier time rooting for female protagonists than males in movies. In the relationships I've had so far, with one or two exceptions, including the one I mentioned above, I was luckily able to act out some of my fantasies, at the same time feeling a great deal of care and tenderness for my partners.

This "sadistic" aspect of my sexuality has been there ever since I can remember, and I still cannot find any rhyme, reason, or rationale behind it. I cannot explain it away or make justifications for it. It simply exists, like an "orientation", as it has been keenly pointed out, and that's all there is to it. I've struggled with it, and still do, as probably some LGBT people do with theirs. I've often wondered why whatever higher power exhists has made it so inherent in me. I largely agree with Natasha's post. This is something that exists in many of us human beings, as part of our evolutionary aggression - safe and legal methods of "release" are something that's necessary as us humans become more moral and civillized. Just like competitive sports like american football eventually replaced gladiatorial combat, and yes, the prevalence of war films and video games.

----- OK, that's pretty much what I have to say on this subject at the moment. And now, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to promote a talented new future star, Dahlia Delis. She recently made a number of great videos (a few of which feature simulated consensual and non-consensual bondage sex), mostly for Steve Villa. I don't know whether she's been discussed before, but I highly recommend you to check her out at: Girl Next Door Bondage I'm in touch with her via her blog (http://dahliadelis.blogspot.com/), so maybe I'll invite her to share her thoughts on this subject...

OK, signing out, for now.

-- The Gimp

Thanks for letting us know about Dahlia Delis. She's very sexy and also a Smokin' Babe, so you know I'm gonna like her. Sure, invite her here to post; hopefully the language barrier won't be a problem. I did a search on her and not only does she do bondage, she also does harder stuff like torture, rape and snuff (check out the link in my Homepage URL). Most gorgeous models will only do lighter stuff, so this is refreshing...she definitely looks like a GIMP-friendly performer. Very cool. What clips have you seen that are worthwhile?

Frankly, I can rationalize my sick nature with the best of them. But I don't think I could ever hope to explain my viewing interests to someone who was a rape victim, and especially not if that person was someone I was intimate with. It's no wonder you went through the struggles you did.

For what it's worth, I have enjoyed reading your posts in the archives, and I am glad to hear you are well.

Secondly, although I can understand the tough time you had dating a rape victim, I don't think you should feel guilty. You were not the scum who did that to her. I also disagree with the theory that violent movies trigger violent reactions. A person who watches a rape movie and goes out and rapes someone is fucked up to begin with. And this forum that you created has actually given out a strong anti-rape message in real life. Judging from the responses to the poll, it is quite clear that the posters here agree 100% with the disclaimer. That real-life rapist from the past is NOT a GIMPer.

Thirdly, Dahlia Delis is smokin' hot! Thanks again.

As to to the question of the poll, not at all do I feel lovers of extreme bondage hate women. Anyone who really knows bondage and what it takes to make it extreme would be able to tell you that respect is key. What is extreme anyway, even the great John Blakemore, who has become one of my best friends will tell you that safety for the girls is on the top of his list. Was there ever a more extreme rigger that charted the direction of an industry and the way thousands look at bondage?

Things can be as extreme as two people want to as long as limits are respected. But that's the kicker, isn't it? Many who love bondage have really never tied up a woman and have no idea that what happens in your mind when your hand is pleasing your dick is far different than what happens in real time and real life.

You can kick the living shit out of a girl as long as she wants it done to her. What I have maintained for years is that I have more respect for these models who do bondage because they are worth their weight in gold. Try doing the things you like to see done to some vanilla bitch and spend the rest of your life behind bars. NO, I don't hate women I fucking love them, and they need to be respected at the levels they bring into this stuff we call our kink.

I know that's a weird way to begin my answer to the question, but I think it's kinda useful. Watching a real woman suffer and be humiliated, no matter much she deserves it (and Paris Hilton probably does deserve what she's gotten), just isn't that much fun. Fantasy is different. For one thing, I have a tendancy to identify with the victim. For me, there's a dual experience with gimp fantasy. I like to pretend to be in control, to dominate a beautiful woman and take what I want, but I also like to be scared on behalf of the victim. It's like watching a horror movie. . .you don't want to see what's next. . . but you really fuckin' do! I do and don't want to see lovely ladies get harmed. I really love women (and not just sexually. . . although that's a plus), and the way there sexuality makes them vulnerable scares me, so it excites me and turns me on. Thinking about rape turns me on because it's scary. Thinking about torturing a woman and punishing her for her sexuality turns me on even more because it's so awful. Scary shit works the adrenal glands, and gimp fantasy works some deep seated cultural fears. Violating women emphasizes their sexuality and vulnerability.

Now for the other side of the coin. . . sex is about power. It's about a lot of other stuff, but without the power stuff it's all just pantomine. Is is strange that fantasies about power get me hard? Nope. Nuff said.

In conclusion I'd say that misogyny is a factor in my own sexual life, but not in a straightforward kind of way. I've kind of turned a fear into a fetish, and incorporated that fetish into some natural inevitable feelings that I have anyway. And besides, women just look hotter when they are cringing.

I'd love to see Rick do an XTractor II with an actual fuck machine and some effects, esp. if he worked a cumshot into the (LOL) climax of the scene. He's never managed a really good fake cumshot, usually because he didn't use the right technique (Hint: Anyone ever take a garden hose and kink it repeatedly, and look at the way the water comes out? Now apply that to a bag of fake, ummmm, "cumstance" -- either with air pressure or water pressure as the driver). Mind you, I'm not complaining about his cumshots, just saying I think I could set up a better one.

As far as his "periods", I think my favs were the fantasy/SF ones of the mid-90s. I'd like to see some more like Chamber of Horrors with invisible and/or non-human villians. The best recent scene like this was the closing scene of Ballista 3.

I still say Rick should make a Japanese connection and get someone over there to back him going to Japan to produce a few. That would sidestep many of the current issues with the Feds and probably get him a budget that he could actually do something pretty impressive. Since they've done live action "La Blue Girl" and "Angel of Darkness" films, he should be able to get someone interested in something he's done. Japanese women certainly can be found willing to do anything his demented imagination can come up with.

I wonder if this means Rick's inner voice is telling him it's finally time to produce that long-awaited Best of Lisa DVD?

So far, all of the Ballista pics have focused on Lisa (with Penelope Pace playing a supporting part in a few of them).

Actually, yeah, you're right. I checked and all 14 of the Ballista caps will feature Lisa, virtually ignoring all the other girls in that series. In a way it makes sense, though, since Lisa is Ballista, clearly the star of all 3 movies. You must be loving all these pics, eh? (Notice I'm talking to you in your own language?)

I wonder if this means Rick's inner voice is telling him it's finally time to produce that long-awaited Best of Lisa DVD?

I'm sure he's super busy transferring the rest of the ZFX library to DVD first, so any special projects like that will undoubtedly have to wait. I think a better idea would be bundling the 3 Ballista movies into a Special Edition Collectors Box Set. How cool would it be to have Rick and Lisa doing commentary on an alternate track? Don't laugh; I know Dan Hawke did a commentary track on his first Masters Series, and it was a great bonus. So it's not totally unheard of in bondage DVD releases.

I'm one of those geeks that likes to listen to audio commentaries on movies I like. I dig extras. One of the best things about all the new release ZFX titles that Rick has released on DVD ever since Ballista 3 are the outtakes from the productions. It gives you the feeling that you're right there on location watching Rick direct and getting to see the actors all going through their paces. It really makes you appreciate the finished product even more.

Of course, I think the Best of Lisa should be released first.

So I would like to force a beautiful caught Sex Slave woman to the Sex with me!

Well, it's only been 3 weeks, but already Hostel: Part 2 is gone from the first run theaters and into the discount $2.00 theaters where they show the movies that didn't make it at the box office. According to BoxOfficeMojo.com, the film made only $8 million the first week, and dropped all the way down to 14th place by its third week. So far it's made about $17 million, which is still a profit since it only cost $10 million to make, but I think everyone involved will have to consider this one to be a huge disappointment, a box office bomb, if you will.

Why didn't the film succeed with mainstream audiences? There are probably a few reasons, but one of the big ones was that a workprint copy of the film got leaked to the internet nearly 2 full weeks before the film opened. That's apparently what Eli Roth was lamenting on his MySpace blog (story linked above). Internet piracy steals millions of dollars from the people who attempt to make these films for us and ultimately drives some of them out of business, or else saps their desire to create new films because they know they will only be stolen anyway. Don't discount the theory that it was some thief who stole the workprint that ultimately ended up hurting this film. I know the bootleg is out here and easily accessible because I downloaded it myself, but I also spent my dollars and paid for the movie at the theater, and I'll buy the DVD when it comes out. A lot of people won't. Why pay for something when you can simply download it for free?

Anyway, the death of Hostel: Part 2 in theaters is a very bad sign for those of us who were hoping for more of the same in their neighborhood cineplex. Just think if it had succeeded, there might be a whole slew of copycat directors who would be making their own versions of Girls In Merciless Peril: The Motion Picture. Or maybe that kind of entertainment is just too rough and misogynistic for normal folks and that's why the film tanked. Face it, most of the population out there doesn't like the sick shit that we do. I have the feeling that the stuff we like is still destined to be watched either in peepshow booths or else purchased in plain brown wrappers to be viewed in secret in the privacy of our homes. And maybe that's how it always will be.

Anyone care to comment? For as noisy as it was the past week, we're barely at a whisper now. It amazes me how this place gets quiet at the drop of a hat, even with over 600 people consistently visiting every day.

Hostel 2: There's no doubt that working print hurt ticket sales. But there are other reasons the movie didn't do that well. From a non-GIMP point of view, it was far inferior to the first movie. The switched roles of the killers in Part 2 was a bit of a surprise, but I found the movie quite predictable and didn't get that feeling of suspense and absolute horror from the original.

From a GIMP perspective, Part 2 might later be considered be a must-see mainstream classic. But I assume many people who want to see women getting tortured on film would rather see those scenes in the privacy of their own homes. I think many on this forum are waiting for the DVD for that reason. And look at the TVs you can buy nowadays. People are setting up mini-theaters in their own homes. There's no need to wait in line for tickets, none of those loud-mouthed jocks that Mothbrad mentioned, you can hit pause to take a leak, and slow-mo the GIMP-worthy scenes, unless they're in Bill Zebub's movies :-)

I watched Hostel 2 at the theater with a couple of non-GIMP horror aficionados, and it was a real task trying to hide my raging boner from them during the Heather Matarazzo scene, another advantage to home entertainment.

I still believe the GIMP population is much larger than it seems, and the producers are aware of that. I have no doubt that someone, probably not Eli Roth, will make a Hostel 3.

Anybody here watch "Battlestar Galactica"? I don't really watch TV at all, but I do watch a lot of TV shows on DVD. I'm just catching up with the show. It really, really good, and I'd recommend it for lots of reasons, but oh my god, there was an actual, terrifying, butt clenching, boner-inducing rape scene! In a Fucking TV show! In the scene a female prisoner is getting raped by an interrogator. It is shown in very brief flashes with very discreet editing (there's a bare ass, but only for a couple of frames- hey, it's TV!), but there's loads of build up, and it's a horrific, brutal scene. It was really short, and they get interrupted, but it's an amazingly good mainstream rape scene just the same! Very nice. For those interested, you can see it on two different DVDs. It's the last episode of the season 2.0 boxed set, or the first episode of the season 2.5 boxed set (the episode was a cliffhanger designed to keep the audience interested during midseason hiatus, and they just repeated it when they put out the DVDs). I dunno. It's pretty tame for this board, but it really got to me for some reason. It might be because the show gets you pretty attached to the characters, but anyway. . . thought I'd share.

Sorry, Ralphus: Horsepucky.

Most people (sorry Gimpers) are tired of everyone trying to "one up" the last Saw **clone**. This trend has run its course, and is going to fade like a cheap Polaroid at a beach shack. The number of people who like gore, mutilation, and people finding ever new ways to be revoltingly cruel are an innately small bunch. It had shock value, for a bit, but now it's just more of the same -- very limited originality and equally limited appeal. Saw had some originality. Friday the 13th had some originality. Halloween had some originality. Just about everything since then has been "Saw 12.75", "Halloween 33-1/3", and "Friday the 24th".

"Me too!" might be worth seeing. "Me 37th", on the other hand, **ain't** a movie worth seeing. The only thing left is the Zucker-Abrams-Zucker parody, the Robot Chicken/South Park Spoof, and the Trivial Pursuit "Horror" Edition. Good Riddance.

Sorry, Ralphus: Horsepucky.

Uh, sorry, Vreedle, you couldn't be more wrong if you had said the grass was red and the sky was green. We've been through all this before. I think it's hilarious when I run into people who justify bootlegging by saying that it doesn't hurt anyone. Ask any of the producers here if piracy doesn't cost them big bucks. Being ignorant of the facts and answering someone's statement with a one-word dismissal certainly doesn't make you right.

Better late than never so allow me to chime in on the poll question - I cannot imagine any Gimper having a hatred of women. Fact is, we probably all adore them and put them on a pedestal - of course then we proceed to bind, gag, lash and rape them there. Simply a fantasy outlet for excessive testosterone levels. It is only through women that we men maintain any veneer of civilized behavior.

While fully aware that such monsters exist, they are a rare breed indeed. Having spent most of my adult working life dealing with a daily parade of all manner of human debris, it has been my experience that even the most loathsome psychopath or sociopath rarely has a hatred of women - they simply have no emotion at all, just that overpowering need for instant self gratification by whatever means at their disposal.

IMHO, we Gimpers can revel in the knowledge that fantasy is our natural high, never would we harm a woman in any fashion and truly love them from head to toe, especially when bound and gagged.

Stay Well All

I suspect he's right. Eli Roth can create all the excuses he wants, but it seems the people releasing Hostel 2 knew they were in trouble well before opening night. In Toronto, for example, reviewers were not allowed to see an advance copy of the movie -- a clear indication the distributors knew the movie was going to be panned. We should also remember that Hostel 2 was released around the same time as The Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. In my view, if you're going to try to compete against Jessica Alba in a tight outfit, you better have one damn fine movie.

Yes, piracy is an issue, but I'm one of the people in the camp that thinks Hollywood has been exaggerating the impacts of piracy. I remember some early reports that said bootlegged DVDs might hurt the sales for Spider-Man 3. Yet that movie went on to gross more than $870 million worldwide (so far). And the movie was actually pretty lame (too much crying for my tastes).

What's really hurting some Hollywood movies is the actual content of the films. I saw an analysis somewhere that Hollywood is still getting the big opening weekends. What the filmmakers are not getting are the repeat customers -- teenagers who are so impressed with a film that they keep going back. That's not a problem created by piracy, but a problem with the quality of the movies being produced.

In fairness to Vreedle, he didn't say piracy doesn't hurt anyone. He said he didn't think piracy is the reason Hostel 2 bombed.

Whether or not internet piracy had something to do with the movie failing is something we can debate back and forth, but there's not going to be any definitive proof in terms of actual dollars and cents. It's assumed in several circles, including by the film's own director, that piracy hurt this film in at least some way and contributed to its box office failure. What I was going after Vreedle for was his contradiction of my statement that Internet piracy steals millions of dollars from the producers. This goes back to the discussions we had back in January (link above), where Vreedle claimed that piracy didn't cause loss since the thieves who pirate this stuff would never buy it in the first place, so there was no real loss involved. Which is, in itself, a load of crap. The loss is that the producer doesn't get paid for what he created, and whatever potential income he might have received from his work is minimized because his work is now available all over the net for anyone to download for free.

How many of you would pay 20 bucks for a movie, or $16 for a CD, if you could download the exact same thing, digital quality and all, off the net for free? Show of hands...let's see...hey, how come nobody's raising their hand? Yeah, people are basically honest, but how many, especially those with limited incomes, are going to invest their money and buy something they could get free instead? Be real here.

And file sharers are the worst. I can see how someone might buy a DVD and burn a copy to give to his friend, but how about these people who get hold of stuff and stick it on the net, where potentially thousands of people are now going to access it? Vreedle took me to task before and said that figure is greatly exaggerated, that it was more in the 10-20 range...again, total ignorance on his part. I've seen Rapidshare links that say that such and so file has been downloaded 800 to 900 times in a 3-month period. And those are just the files that haven't been deleted yet for copyright infringement and then uploaded again by the file sharer.

I know of one particular Yahoo group that has over 1800 members that get stuff sent to their inboxes every day, and they keep popping up, dozens of new freebies every day. The thing is, they may be free to the members, but every new link is just one more loss to the producer who is being denied income from his or her creation.

Bondage producers get hit the hardest, because they are working within a limited niche market, as opposed to the vanilla porn guys that get so many customers that they could probably still absorb the losses from piracy. Bondage and fetish producers have a much smaller market to begin with, and when the pirates go after their stuff, it cuts heavily into their losses. Rick Masters told me that even more than governmental censorship, internet piracy was sapping his desire to make intricate, polished productions when somebody was only going to steal them anyway. I think most of us here want to see more ZFX movies in the future, don't we? Well, if we continue to tolerate online bootlegging, expect to see fewer and fewer of the movies we all like being produced. That's not an exaggeration, and it's not horsepucky, either. It's a real loss, and not just to the producer this time. It's a loss to all of us.

Do Bondage Folk Hate Women? Its great to see all the insightful responses to this interesting poll. I definitely love women, and I prefer the company of women to men just to hang around with 9 times out of 10. While I have a keen interest in violence and bondage type material, its not the only thing that interests me sexually or in life for that matter. I can look at a fully clothed woman or a woman having an orgasm and I find it very pleasing.

There may be something to it being a primordial throw back, these interests of ours, some latent survival skill that has ceased to be useful but is with us nonetheless. It is genetic furtherance by whatever means necessary which is probably instinctual. The law of nature is reproduce or die.

I would not want to see the things in my films carried out in real life, nor would I like the violent entertainment coming out of Hollywood carried out in real life. Saw? Hostel?...horrible scenes. But it is entertaining to watch. Like a Ferrari hitting a brick wall and exploding in a film, it is both beautiful and tragic but it is exciting. You don't hate the Ferrari, its not about that. You also don't want to get in the Ferrari and run it into the wall yourself. Its about the spectacle of it. A beautiful woman debauched on film is the sexual equivalent to an exploding Ferrari. Yes, yes I know, I'm objectifying....But I think the analogy works. I don't care how many Ferraris you see running into the wall in movies, few of us would ever see that and go oh yeah THAT'S a good idea and do it in real life.

That is the great thing about fictional role playing, films stories, etc. They allow you to experience the thrill of things that would be abhorrent in real life. Personally I think a rich fantasy life and having porn readily accessible as an outlet for people is a good thing and the statistics continue to back that up. Forcible rape was down in 2006 by 2 percent and 1.9 percent in 2005. Virtually all other crimes increased in both years.

Also, their was a study done at the University of Indiana in 2006 that basically said people who use Internet porn commit less sex crimes. I'm going to send it to Ralphus, maybe he can post it somehow. Funny how the media hasn't reported on this. They are too busy vilifying the Internet, after all, they don't want to have any competing mediums. TV is in full propaganda mode trying to scare people off the Internet.

Bob Jones mentioned Paris Hilton. I too am really sickened by the media's apparent glee at her suffering. Paris is a soft...wow big surprise, did they expect her to like jail? Paris Hilton is an opportunist...nother big surprise. The media is even more so. The paparazzi remind me of a bunch of angry peasants during the French Revolution...They just cant stop throwing rotten eggs at the rich and off their pretty heads. As Don Henley said, "Kick em when they're up, kick em when they're down"...

THE GIMP: Its good to hear from you. Hope all is well with you and your lady friend, thanks for the de lurk! You sound like a stand up guy, I can appreciate that, but I also think you can like bondage movies and still be a stand up guy. But I can also relate to the repugnance of real life rape and how this affects the real life victims and those around them. Obviously you felt conflicted. Keep your chin up.

Periods of ZFX Poll: I appreciate all the great posts on this. I'm not going to give my opine on this other than to say that there were great performers from all periods and that's ultimately what makes or breaks a movie.

Hostel2: Haven't seen it other than the trailers and stuff but it looked good. Critics will always pan any movie that has the rape/expoitation of females in it if it is graphic. I was reading Dave Poland's review...geezus this guy is a horses ass! He's talking about how he loved A Clockwork Orange because it had some uplifting message?...blah bullshit. This guy buys a bootleg Hostel 2 DVD, watches it, then goes into a personal attack on the director. It was way over the top. Hey you don't like the movie, fine, the movie sucked, but to attack the director like he was Ted Bundy...wow. Dave, methinks thou doth protest too much! This is why you should never listen to the critics, LOL.

Back in the day, 1970 ish I think, Kubrick released Clockwork and it was widely panned, there was some so called copycat crimes, mainly inventions of the press, in the UK and Kubrick was so incensed at the reaction he banned the film from the UK...he refused to show it there, or distribute it there. Now everyone thinks he was a genius, because of course, Kubrick was a genius. Anyway, I'm not saying Eli is Kubrick, but I can guarantee you Dave Poland would have been chucking stones at Kubrick like they all did when Clockwork was first released.

File Sharing/Bootlegging: Its a big problem. It makes me less than eager to release new shows to be bootlegged. There's an old saying, "Some will always pay, some will only pay if they have to and some will never pay." Its always tough to compete with free.

That's it for now,

Rick

I actually think Mr. Roth was behind this link to try to drum up sales...You have to remember he hyped this movie to such a degree that it was bound to disappoint. The film was tame and vanilla and tried to interject keystone cop humor into a story which should have had no humor in it (the chainsaw scene with Bijou Phillips was ludicrous)...He tried to pay homage to the Italian masters of the genre, but forgot what makes those films so great....There are people working in the bondage industry today that could do a better job with a horror film (with torture and bondage elements) than Mr. Roth did.

But Hostel took in $18 mill. Assuming $9 per ticket (that's high), 2 million people paid to see it. If 5 thousand didn't because the movie was pre-released, that's 00.025% of total sales or $45,000. That's NOT a big impact.

On the other hand, 10 people getting a ZFX or PowerShotz clip for free puts a HUGE dent in Rick and Steve's budget.

This concludes today's episode of Fun With Math.

By and large, nearly everybody who reads this forum who saw Hostel: Part 2 gave it high marks. But our tastes are different from the mainstream population. Someone like Rick Masters could release Ballista 2 in theaters, one of his best films, and these same people would attack it as misogynistic crap or torture porn. You can't please everybody, obviously.

Above is the link that Rick sent me about the study of Internet Porn and the (positive) effect it has had on decreasing rape. It's a long read, and I'm not even done with it myself yet, but very interesting stuff. Take some time and check it out. I think you'll conclude, as I've felt for a long time, that porn is a good thing. Long live porn!