Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

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Graias
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Graias »

Stev wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:56 am I would like to share a few general thoughts with you.

I think, if this club is to be successful, you need to get down to the lowest common denominator. That sounds negative, but it is not. Let's take the topic of sex, for example. Some find the idea of mixing sex and BDSM attractive. I assume that this is not the majority. For others, it's a no-go. From that point of view, it would be wise not to include such scenes. Without those scenes, some may not have that particular fantasy fulfilled, but can still get pleasure from the film. With these scenes, you lose some of the viewership. When the club eventually gets big enough, you can make special short clips in addition to the actual movies that also fulfill the desires of a smaller portion of the community. After all, when the club is big enough, that part is also big enough that it's worth producing especially for them. The rest of the club will ignore such short clips.

So I think it's wise to start without content that is too specific, but that everyone can agree on. Then you can build on that.
Yeah that's the path we're on right now. The challenge is to understand what the majority wants though. We thought including a private group of VIP members, so we can discuss the topics.
Stev wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:56 am One more thought about the Graias subscription model. I have written before that I see some basic weaknesses in a subscription model. Some/many will take advantage of the subscription in such a way that they sign up for a month, then download as many clips as possible, and then cancel again to repeat the game a few months later. Even if one does it this way every other month, he saves 50%. One way to prevent that is to produce such good content that customers can't wait (or don't want to cancel). This is not easy. ;-) Or by offering advantages to existing customers. One such advantage could be that the subscription becomes cheaper from month to month. After half a year, for example, it could cost only half as much and then remain at this level. When the customer has reached the point where he has "earned" this discount, he will consider giving up this advantage by canceling, because he won't get it back anytime soon. You could also consider other ways to reward longer customers.

Just my two cents on this...
Great points Stev! Here's what we've done (and doing) about the issues you mentioned:
  • There are studies on internet that compared perpetual and subscription model together based on statistics. I don't know if those studies can be relied on for porn industry or not, but my overall understanding is that subscription model is still more profitable in the long term. So the group that you described aren't large in number to offset the profit made by loyal members
  • Each month we control the available videos to members with updating the Graias Menu (which is the catalog of all videos for a particular month) In the beginning our content is limited but as we go further, we can circulate the content so it would benefit the long term members.
  • As a member you have Graias key (something like a password), which identifies how long you've been a member, how many movies you bought and other key performance indicators so we can calculate a number for each member's credit. With the amount of credits a key holder have, offering advantages such as screen writing is possible.
  • Last but not least, the business model of VIP club, is neither subscription nor perpetual. It's a combination of both and no member is required to pay for anything "monthly".
In designing the business model of VIP club, we tried to put 20 years of experience of our team. I haven't given you the references we used to come up with such model but it's a based on all the lessons learned from the ups and downs throughout history of BDSM porn industry.
Does that mean it's the best business model possible? absolutely not! That's why I'm sharing it with you to see how you criticize it.
Take care.
Alina @ Graias Studio
Website: GraiasUniverse.com
Email: webmaster@graias.com
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Edukator
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Edukator »

To Larry @ Graias:

To avoid some possible disappointments,maybe you should start clarify YOUR definition of "EXTREMELY Real".
There are many requests here for very harsh, brutal and REALISTIC scenes but most of these suggestions can't be done for many practical and legal reasons.
Le's face it, EXTREMELY REAL torture isn't possible, extreme LOOKING to some extent... which won't be considered as extreme enough by most of your your targeted customers... just because they aren't REAL !

A short compilation of previous posts illustrates well what your (future) VIP members are looking for, expecting to find in your Club, and what your videos should (must) contain to qualify for the EXTREMELY REAL label:

- The tortured girl (victim) should be forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done against her will and without her consent (NON CONSENSUAL !), otherwise it can't be considered as "real".

- The torture/punishments must also be extreme, going much further in intensity and severity than what is already available in the most extreme CP studios productions. Such level of torture will undoubdetly leave long lasting traces and/or definitive corporal damages, or even... death !

- NOTHING must be simulated or faked, and the complaints of the tortured victim won't be taken into consideration in any way. Once again, the key word here is REAL.

- The scenes must include sexual extremely painful torture and/or rape. Should I remind you that by definition a REAL rape is allways non-consensual !

Etc, etc...

Do you REALLY think you could meet all the above criteria without ending up in jail ? The answer is NO, whatever tricks you might find to get around payment issues and preserve members anonymity. (provided of course you can find models willing to act in such productions, which might be the most difficult part of your project. Obviously they won't come back for a second shoot and will be in short supply)

Sure, there's a demand for such specific material but it doesn't mean it can or must be done.

Sorry to say that, but it seems to me that some members here can't tell the difference between fantasy and (criminal) reality. Sometimes it's really frigthening... whe should not fuel this any more to avoid possible legal problems to this site owner(s).
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Graias
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Graias »

Edukator wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:08 pm To Larry @ Graias:

Maybe you should start clarify YOUR definition of "EXTREMELY Real".
There are many requests here for very harsh, brutal and REALISTIC scenes but most of these suggestions can't be done for many practical and legal reasons.
Le's face it, EXTREMELY REAL torture isn't possible, extreme LOOKING to some extent... which won't be considered as extreme enough by most of your your targeted customers... just because they aren't REAL !
First of all, Thanks for sharing you thoughts with us! Although it was a mistake to bring some discussions on future videos here (in a public forum that cause misinterpretation) but I think once again we should talk about this, without getting angry or offensive. So I invite you and all readers to calm down and stop calling me or any other of your fellow ralphus users, criminals.

Your rage is based on a misunderstanding of a huge part of this thread, which I agree if my use of language or wordiness of posts is the culprit here.

Fundamentals:
What do we mean by "extremely real" here? We want to simply start a club where masochist models who are professionals in experiencing pain, join and help us in creating BDSM content. No part of this is non consensual.

What does "extreme" mean in this context? it's a word that I used to imply the difference of future videos with what other studios make. Of course if I film anything related to BDSM, as long as I'm not using CGI or animations, it's real. right? What I meant by extreme is that we're not gonna use any make-up and we're not gonna ask the masochist models to fake screams.
Edukator wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:08 pm
A short compilation of the previous posts illustrates well what your (future) VIP members are looking for, and what your videos should contain to qualify for the EXTREMELY REAL label:

- The tortured girl (victim) should be forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done against her will and without her consent (NON CONSENSUAL !), otherwise it can't be considered as "real".

- The torture/punishments must be also extreme, going much further in intensity and severity than what is already available in the most extreme CP studios productions. Such level of torture will undoubdetly leave long lasting traces and/or definitive corporal damages, or even... death !

- NOTHING must be simulated or faked, and the complaints of the tortured victim won't be taken into consideration in any way. Once again, the key word here is REAL.

- The scenes must include sexual extremely painful torture and/or rape. Should I remind you that by definition a REAL rape is allways non-consensual !

Etc, etc...
none of these points you mentioned, is what we mean by previous posts. again i apologize for making this thread this long but that's not a good reason to neglect them all by a "short compilation". Anyway, let me try to correct them one by one:

- The tortured girl (victim masochist model in real life) should be appear as if she is being forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done to look like it's against her will and without her consent (which looks NON CONSENSUAL ! but it's in fact 100% concesuall), otherwise it can't be considered as "real". (Which is totally possible to be considered to be real, that's basically why movies exist in general -- to make the viewer think that these things are really happening whether the genre is horror, drama or porn)

- The torture/punishments must be also extreme, going much further at the same level in intensity and severity than what is was already available in the most extreme CP studios productions. Such level of torture will undoubdetly likely leave long lasting traces and/or definitive corporal damages, or even... death ! (what's wrong with a Queens fan to have a tattoo of Fredie on his/her body? if you're ok with that, then you should be ok with a masochist model want to have traces of canes/whips on her body for a couple of weeks. )

- NOTHING must screams and welts shouldn't be simulated or faked, and it should look like the complaints of the tortured victim masochist models won't be taken into consideration in any way ,while in reality they are part of our team and we joke and have fun backstage Once again, the key word here is REAL.

- in case VIP members want The scenes must might include sexual extremely painful torture and/or rape. Should I remind you that by definition a REAL rape is allways non-consensual!

Etc, etc...

Do you REALLY think you could meet all the above criteria without ending up in jail ? The answer is NO, whatever tricks you might find to get around payment issues and preserve members anonymity.

Sorry to say that, but it seems to me that some members here can't tell the difference between fantasy and (criminal) reality. Sometime it's really frigthening... whe should not fuel this any more to avoid possible legal problems to this site owner(s).


I have a lot of respect for Ralphus, after all he is reponsible for all of this platform and as a member of Graias Studio I'm very grateful to his work. I'm sure this is not the first (nor last) time we have a discussion like this on forum, and throughout years I learned from Ralphus to include this fundamental principal of this forum on my response to such arguments, that seems to be forgotten from time to time:

PART 1: This site, does NOT, under any circumstances, knowingly promote any violence of any kind toward any living being. Anything mentioned in the Forum is related to fantasy/fetish only, it is only a figment of the contributor's imagination. Scenes from any videos described herein, to the best of the webmaster's knowledge were performed by consenting adults. This site does not concern the so-called "snuff" films, and any advocates of real violence or promoters of films where any degree of actual nonconsent by a performer was present, shall be removed from the discussion immediately.

Once again, on behalf of myself and our team, I apologize to you @edukator and all readers who felt offended for talking about things that disturbed you. This is the best way to end such discussions and move them to a dedicated private group so those of us who like these ideas can freely talk about their fantasies.
Alina @ Graias Studio
Website: GraiasUniverse.com
Email: webmaster@graias.com
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Edukator
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Edukator »

quote from Larry:

Once again, on behalf of myself and our team, I apologize to you @edukator and all readers who felt offended for talking about things that disturbed you. This is the best way to end such discussions and move them to a dedicated private group so those of us who like these ideas can freely talk about their fantasies.

Thank you for your very detailed reply Larry.
First I never intended to suspect YOU (or your team) of any criminal activity, only noticed that some members suggestions/requests were dangerously borderline and trying to push you too close to this category. Please consider it as a kind and respectful warning. Don't go too far (see what happened to Insex and others).

Also, I'm neither disturbed or offensed by YOUR posts, thus no need to apologize. I would need MUCH more than this to feel uncomfortable, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I would add that I'm very familiar with the ("standard") Graias productions and none of those I've watched so far have ever shocked me. But still, suggesting a real (brutal and painful) rape is beyond me and not something I would approve even in this peculiar context . But to each his own...

My main intention by posting this was trying to help making clearer what you intend to offer in your future VIP productions , as well as what you are definitely NOT. Members feedback/interactive contributions is an excellent idea missing from most (all ?) studios but there are allways some practical limits to consider.
From the previous posts and reactions I had the impression that many prospective future members of your Club are expecting MUCH more than what you are willing or (legally) able to offer.
Then to avoid any possible disappointments I thought some clarifications from your side would be useful.
Now it's done.
Thank you for that.
Last edited by Edukator on Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Graias
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Graias »

Edukator wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm quote from Larry:

Once again, on behalf of myself and our team, I apologize to you @edukator and all readers who felt offended for talking about things that disturbed you. This is the best way to end such discussions and move them to a dedicated private group so those of us who like these ideas can freely talk about their fantasies.

Thank you for your very detailed reply Larry.
First I never intended to suspect YOU (or your team) of any criminal activity, only noticed that some members suggestions/requests were dangerously borderline and close to this category. Please consider it as a kind and respectful warning. Don't go too far (see what happened to Insex and others).

Also, I'm neither disturbed or offensed by YOUR posts, thus no need to apologize. I would need MUCH more than this to feel uncomfortable, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I would add that I'm very familiar with the ("standard") Graias productions and none of those I've watched so far had ever shocked me. But still, suggesting a real (brutal and painful) rape is beyond me and not something I would approve even in this peculiar context . But to each his own...

My main intention by posting this was trying to help making clearer what you intend to offer in your future VIP productions , as well as what you are definitely NOT.
From the previous posts and reactions I had the impression that many prospective future members of your Club are expecting MUCH more that what you are willing or (legally) able to offer.
Then to avoid any possible disappointments I thought some clarifications from your side would be useful.
Now it's done.
Thank you for that.
I think your post was a perfect example of what we mean by "Constructive Criticism".
BTW if you're fan of our work in Graias Movies, as a direct message, send me the link of a movie you like to watch and your email so I can arrange with the team to send a download link to you for free. Hope that makes your day a little bit better. 👍
Alina @ Graias Studio
Website: GraiasUniverse.com
Email: webmaster@graias.com
theroughman
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by theroughman »

Edukator wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:08 pm To Larry @ Graias:

To avoid some possible disappointments,maybe you should start clarify YOUR definition of "EXTREMELY Real".
There are many requests here for very harsh, brutal and REALISTIC scenes but most of these suggestions can't be done for many practical and legal reasons.
Le's face it, EXTREMELY REAL torture isn't possible, extreme LOOKING to some extent... which won't be considered as extreme enough by most of your your targeted customers... just because they aren't REAL !

A short compilation of previous posts illustrates well what your (future) VIP members are looking for, expecting to find in your Club, and what your videos should (must) contain to qualify for the EXTREMELY REAL label:

- The tortured girl (victim) should be forced, abused and not aware of what she's really going to endure. All this must be done against her will and without her consent (NON CONSENSUAL !), otherwise it can't be considered as "real".

***NO! It will be consensual, i'm sure. Just for more money more pain. That's it.***

- The torture/punishments must also be extreme, going much further in intensity and severity than what is already available in the most extreme CP studios productions. Such level of torture will undoubdetly leave long lasting traces and/or definitive corporal damages, or even... death !

***No. Extreme torture is possible. Yes, with damages. But these damages are not forever. See Brutalmaster.... ***

- NOTHING must be simulated or faked, and the complaints of the tortured victim won't be taken into consideration in any way. Once again, the key word here is REAL.

***Yes. That might be the case. But there will be a contract, i think, which discribes what will happen. ***

- The scenes must include sexual extremely painful torture and/or rape. Should I remind you that by definition a REAL rape is allways non-consensual !

***NO. No real rape, of course. Same like for the other torture. Severe sexual torture, but consensual and paid with good money. ***


Etc, etc...

Do you REALLY think you could meet all the above criteria without ending up in jail ? The answer is NO, whatever tricks you might find to get around payment issues and preserve members anonymity. (provided of course you can find models willing to act in such productions, which might be the most difficult part of your project. Obviously they won't come back for a second shoot and will be in short supply)

Sure, there's a demand for such specific material but it doesn't mean it can or must be done.

Sorry to say that, but it seems to me that some members here can't tell the difference between fantasy and (criminal) reality. Sometimes it's really frigthening... whe should not fuel this any more to avoid possible legal problems to this site owner(s).

***See what I wrote above. Most members can tell the difference. For sure. Especially when we talk about the launch of an highly appreciated new channel. Even if a few members swim out to their fantasies when posting suggestions for the VIP club, i'm sure that we and Graias know that it is only fantasy which will be never comes to live in a BDSM movie! ***

Please see my comments in the original post in ***
sloth79
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by sloth79 »

Hey Larry,

about storyline and adding more fantasy / fiction to the scene: I don’t care much about that. I realize everyone is different, but the question here is: what do I want to see? Young beautiful girls being tortured. Adding a fiction context to it has for me not much value. The way it is done in Graias right now (except for the severity of the punishments) would be more than ok. The girl comes in and gets beaten. Simple and direct.

Your parallel with the films of the Saw franchise is only partially acceptable. If I am watching a movie I like to be taken by the story, the characters, the twists. If those are missing, I have no interest in watching two hours of: car chases, building exploding, or people getting killed in horrible ways. But that’s because the whole should function as a work of art (“Seven” is a beautiful example of this...horrible things in it, but the movie is great). That’s NOT what I expect (or look for) when I watch BDSM or porn. Because in that case I only need to get my fix of sex / torture and get off on it.

Let’s make an analogy with porn: I enjoy porn scenes where the first thing you see is the girl...maybe she gives a very short “interview” (name, age and so on) then she gets naked in front of the camera, guys come in, and fuck her brains out. “Storylines” bore me and I usually skip them. I want to see her get fucked. A bad storyline (with usually bad acting) doesn’t add anything to that.

So for me it would be best to keep it as straight and simple as possible. My interest goes to the beauty of the girl and how severely she’s being tortured. Others may have different expectations, of course.
Lashher
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Lashher »

Graias wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:22 pm
Lashher wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:28 am I agree with Floor 13..string her up tight and lay on the lash. NO sex, dikdos, vibrators, etc

Lashed good.jpeg
Thanks for including an image! I'm not sure if i understood what Floor 13 says but that position in that picture is not the highest level of restrain. I can think of adding a metal neck holder to better match your desire. This way should feel being suffocated if she doesn't hold her body with hands and feet.
However she should pass out from the whipping hanging limp from her wrists
theroughman
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by theroughman »

sloth79 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:04 am Hey Larry,

about storyline and adding more fantasy / fiction to the scene: I don’t care much about that. I realize everyone is different, but the question here is: what do I want to see? Young beautiful girls being tortured. Adding a fiction context to it has for me not much value. The way it is done in Graias right now (except for the severity of the punishments) would be more than ok. The girl comes in and gets beaten. Simple and direct.

Your parallel with the films of the Saw franchise is only partially acceptable. If I am watching a movie I like to be taken by the story, the characters, the twists. If those are missing, I have no interest in watching two hours of: car chases, building exploding, or people getting killed in horrible ways. But that’s because the whole should function as a work of art (“Seven” is a beautiful example of this...horrible things in it, but the movie is great). That’s NOT what I expect (or look for) when I watch BDSM or porn. Because in that case I only need to get my fix of sex / torture and get off on it.

Let’s make an analogy with porn: I enjoy porn scenes where the first thing you see is the girl...maybe she gives a very short “interview” (name, age and so on) then she gets naked in front of the camera, guys come in, and fuck her brains out. “Storylines” bore me and I usually skip them. I want to see her get fucked. A bad storyline (with usually bad acting) doesn’t add anything to that.

So for me it would be best to keep it as straight and simple as possible. My interest goes to the beauty of the girl and how severely she’s being tortured. Others may have different expectations, of course.
I absolutely agree with you. No fiction/story needed. Put all energy in to get real beautyful girls who can take it severe.
I want to add:

- Interview is great. And the girl have to be already scared by the torturer, to tell her what will happen and how painful it will be
- it's absolutely important that the girl get naked slowly in front of the camera or alternatively ripped off the close by the torturer
- and comments by the torturer would be great, like: you have very round provocative bubble butt, you know that this butt have to be punished therefore, it will black and blue pretty soon and will wish that you better would have an ugly butt. Your tits are large, you are guilty of too large tits, these tits will pay an high price for their size....And so on
Harry
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Re: Introducing Graias VIP Club: Let's make it EXTREMELY real!

Post by Harry »

I like the idea but the problem is the Lomp style. Why should not a woman whip a other woman? When I look at the old mood pictures/elitepain films there are a lot of good whippings admistered by Jenny and Kyra but never a good whipping by Lomp. At the end the girls are marked well but he never did a furious whipping/canning like Jenny or Kyra did. He is always playing a strict teacher. Kyra would only say: shut up or you get more...it would be good if they speak english in the film. A good looking woman strung up and whipped as hard as possible, two or three positions for different body parts and you have a good movie. I don´t like rape or to see Lomp squeezing tits with his hands. I think torture with needles or nails are also not a option. Torturegalaxy produced so much extrem stuff so it make no sence to try that. But nobody I know produce simple but extrem femsub whipping films. Women with different body styles would also be good. I like fit and muscular females, other prefere slim or womenly subs. I like girls who fight not to scream other like if they are screaming all the time. I understand that it is not possible to produce a film everybody like. If you ask 20 people you get 20 different answeres.....
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