Is it John Blakemore or Jason Whitman? It doesn't matter, this is really the guy. After over 20 years, the legendary bondage pioneer finally breaks his silence and talks about his new movie, his amazing career with HOM and Cal-Star, what it was like shooting his classic films, his secret for finding women to tie up ...and which one of his famous bondage models was also a bitch. Also why he kept his girls in high heels, what he thinks about tattoos on today's models and what he considers pushing the envelope too far.

Ralphus: Mr. Blakemore, I just want to say at the very beginning that this is a real honor to be able to interview you. You're a true living legend. I've seen just about all your work with HOM and Cal-Star and I'm a big fan. I also saw the interview you did with Amber Rayne and Sgt. Major and it was fascinating stuff.

I run an extreme bondage discussion forum called Bring out the GIMP (Girls In Merciless Peril). When the rest of the readers found out I was going to be interviewing you, I asked them to write out some questions for you that I could ask on the phone. The response was pretty overwhelming because they have the same opinion about you and your work that I do. So there's a lot of questions and this might take a while because according to Maya Matthews, you like to talk even more than she does.

Let's start with the most obvious question. You sort of disappeared after you left Cal-Star. There were rumors you had died, or that you were living in Europe. Nobody seemed to know what became of you. So why did you go into hiding?

John Blakemore: Well, I didn't really go into hiding. It was when Barbara (Behr) at Cal-Star just ended. It was when the feds shut her down. She was the only contact I had. Things were so different back then. There was no Internet, basically. The marketing was by mail, and that's the only person that I knew. And at the time, things with my wife had evolved to the point that I could have all the fun and games with her that I wanted to. And I just didn't pursue it. When Barbara quit, I just quit right along with her. I didn't want to go looking for someone else. She probably would have been very helpful with getting me in touch with Lyndon, but there were only 3 or 4 big distributors of magazines and it was mostly just magazines and videos were just getting started.

R: You say when she quit, was she actually a performer, or a model?

JB: Oh, no, no, no. Barbara ran the business. She was just a good businesswoman and she had had enough and was tired of the hassle. So she just decided to retire.

R: So after about 22, 23 years of no activity, why return now?

JB: Well, the reason why is because the guy who was my main photographer...he was in the sound movie...oh, the sound movie about the crazy Vietnam vet...what was that?

R: Doesn't sound familiar.

JB: Oh, The Experiment!

R: Oh, okay. That's one of your titles I've not had a chance to see.

JB: Oh, that's probably one of the best movies. I haven't seen it, either.

R: You haven't seen it for years, in other words, right?

JB: No, I haven't seen it. Period. I have seen virtually none of the movies I have made because the sound movies were edited in California and I wound up never getting a copy of most of them. Of course, that was on VHS, but a lot of them I have never seen.

R: That's pretty amazing that you haven't seen some of your own work.

JB: Yeah, but part of it is that I had to remain absolutely, completely anonymous in the part of the country that I live in. And the community is very religious and you don't mess with God, you know. They'll get ya. So I stayed as low profile as possible. I had a full-time job. This was all part-time, always. Worked me to death. But I didn't push it. There was no need. Once the thing was done, it was done and I'm ready to start figuring out what I have to do to make another one.

I know what's in the movie. Hell, I wrote it, directed it, and some of them I was in, but my cinematographer was the main character in The Experiment. He's now married and has a family. And about 2 and a half years ago, I saw him and he said he was cruising through the Internet the other night and came across something he wasn't even looking for. I came on this thing and it was by this guy named Dan Hawke. It was like a chat room or an editorial or something and he said, man, it was about us! It was about you!

R: That was actually our website. That's the site where I'm the moderator.

JB: Yeah, and so I wound up going back to his house when his wife and kids were gone once, and we spent the evening there and we looked at 3 or 4 things and one thing led to another and I went Holy crap! I had no idea that I was famous. I had no clue. And because of Dan Hawke...he was so gracious. I sent him a weirdly-worded e-mail and he said when he got that e-mail, it was so off the wall, he figured it had to be real.

He responded and then we talked on the phone and he sent me many, many DVDs of his work and he told me about Sgt. Major. He said there's a guy who really, really, really wants to meet me and wants to talk to me. So I called him up and that was 2 years ago and we became quite good friends on the telephone long distance. And then here, back in October, I went up to his home up North and we made a movie. Not the way I would have really wanted to make it, but we ran out of time.

See, things have changed so much. I am totally ignorant of the marketplace today. Of course, I know that there's a million websites, but as far as the nuts and bolts with the model...you know, how many hours does a certain amount of money pay for? And when I was doing a movie, a sound movie that was an hour long, of course, it had a story, it was scripted. We followed the script. We had meetings prior to shooting with all the people involved so everybody knew what was going on. They had to learn their lines. They had to know what they were going to say. And it took 2 long days, 8 to 10 hours.

R: So how long did you have to shoot Amber?

JB: About 5 hours.

R: Now, you say it wasn't exactly what you had planned on. What were you originally planning?

JB: I had written a script. After I had seen a couple DVDs of her, I realized her capabilities were phenomenal. She's very limber and a tough lady. I had written a script that would have told quite a neat little story, but there simply wasn't time. A friend of Sarge's was there and one evening, we built the set from nothing.

One thing I apologize for and I will again. I don't hear very well and these new words..."red" is the new code word to stop and I didn't understand what Amber was saying, and I crossed the line...unintentionally. I mean, no harm done.

If you notice, one of the things that make my work what I thought it was supposed to be...you don't allow a kidnapped girl that's going to be butchered and raped, you don't let her hold on to the ropes that's holding her up. That kills part of the feel of the thing.

R: Yeah, that totally breaks your fantasy.

JB: Yeah, but you can't do that now. Now they've gotta be able to hold on, you know? Which, if you had taken the time, I can rig padding in such a way that the girl doesn't wind up with her thumb being numb for a week. But you've gotta know what you're doing and it takes a while to get that done right. Just a lot of little things. But certainly, Amber was fantastic. Just fantastic.

R: I actually saw the raw footage, which I was very lucky to have seen that.

JB: How did you like that gigantic dildo?

R: (laughing) Yeah, I wanted ask you, that had to be faked, right, when they put that right up inside of her?

JB: Did it? No! (laughing)

R: Are you serious? That actually went up inside of her? That thing was enormous.

JB: Yeah.

R: Well, we actually didn't get to see an insert shot.

JB: No, that's because the hole in the bottom of that thing had a rope running through. The rope is what kept it up in there. When that rope was pulled forward, it pulled some of her flesh right behind her pussy into the hole. Ouch! That hurt!

R: That must have been the bloodcurdling scream that we heard right before they cut the shot.

JB: It could be. Sarge wanted to drop the whole thing saying we can't do this. I said, yeah, we can. But it took about 15 minutes where I could rig the thing where it wouldn't be visible and the rope wouldn't pull flesh with it. The thing that most people don't realize is that with a willing female...a young woman...the vaginal canal is extremely elastic. If they want to take something huge, it will stretch.

R: Yeah, I saw a YouTube interview with Amber Rayne and she was talking about how she could take these enormous objects up her pussy, so I guess based on your information here, I'm not really surprised. The reason I thought it was simulated was because we didn't actually get to see it on camera. So she actually took it, though, right?

JB: Oh yeah, I just had to keep pushing and pushing and force it in.

R: That's amazing. Now, one thing I had a question about...The part of the footage I really liked the best was the first part where they were hanging her up by her crotch. But I was surprised that in the subsequent scenes, she was never gagged. Was that conscious choice on your part?

JB: No, not on my part. See, we didn't have the time to follow my script. I'll always stick to this forever: You cannot make any sort of piece of cinema off the cuff. You must have a plan. You have to know what you're going to do. Part of this is the editor is in another state. You ship this poor man all this footage with no shooting script. He has no idea what's supposed to go where.

R: I saw the edited footage of the crotchrope scene and I thought the editor did a great job.

JB: But it's so much more difficult without a shooting script. Instead of the old days when we shot on film when we had all that splicing and all that enormous work, it's so easy today. When he's doing his video editing, he can isolate each one of those scenes and piece them together electronically. It's a piece of cake.

And with the new video capabilities...they're new to me...some outstanding movies could be made. I mean, movies that would just raise a hard-on on a dead man, make your cock as hard as Chinese algebra. But it's not being done because the models...and I'm not knocking the girls that do this, necessarily...but there are so many, and the money is so good, that they don't expect to really have to work for it. If one model doesn't want to do something, another one won't either. When I was doing work, I was the only game in town. There was nobody else doing this. Most of the girls that worked for me really liked doing it. So it was a whole different context. The two are not compatible. It's like mixing oil and water.

R: So in your original script for Blakemore Returns, was Amber gagged in the subsequent scenes?

JB: Yeah, part of the time. One of the things I wanted to do, if she was willing to try it...and we would have tried it off-camera...it's very dangerous, unless you know what you're doing. You must be very careful about this, but it only takes 1 or 2 seconds to sell it. A lot of people know today what auto-erotic mutilation is, and auto-erotic asphyxiation. One of the sad things in this country is that many, many teenage girls that supposedly commit suicide, weren't committing suicide at all. They were simply choking themselves to have these wonderful orgasms and they went too far and wound up strangling themselves.

R: Right, that's how the actor David Carradine supposedly died, too.

JB: Yeah, could be. I knew him personally. We were both in the same military post, at the same time in the same office. When he was discharged, I took his job.

R: So what were you planning to do with Amber as far as that goes?

JB: What I wanted to do...and it might have worked; we just didn't do it. Amber wasn't particularly into being choked, but she did like it, somewhat. The deal was to have her arms and wrists tied behind her and to have her stand there, spread her legs and arch her pussy up. I would finger her and the other bad guy would get up behind her and he gets a hold of the down haul on a hoist. You use a wide strap and the hook to the hoist gets attached to the exact center of the back of the head, right above the top of the spine. And you can pick a girl up. She will be strangling. There's no danger of her breaking her neck, but if she goes into orgasm, you can't let her thrash around because she might injure her neck.

R: So the reason you didn't shoot that scene was...?

JB: We just didn't get around to it. It would have taken 7 to 8 hours to have shot the movie the way I had it scripted. The way this thing started was going to be the girl is trussed up by herself in a dimly lit environment. Every struggle that she makes simply hurts her pussy even worse and she can't stop it, although she can get off on it. Then we lap dissolve back to an office. This guy is on the phone talking to Jared. Jared is the procurement manager for some sheik who has purchased this girl. This man and his son have kidnapped her and they're holding her until the time they're told where to deliver her. There's been a delay and they're going to have to keep her for a couple of days. This is what I scripted because of certain things that Amber did not want to have happen. So I worked with her capabilities and the things she was willing to do.

So we got away with this in the script in that Jared says to this old man, "You can do anything you want to her but don't do anything that's going to leave any marks". So that the sheik doesn't know that you've been playing with her because it would piss him off.

R: Now, as far as you know, was this footage shot?

JB: No, it didn't get shot. Sarge was going to shoot it later with him and his friend, filling in for me, and I guess it never got shot. So what happens in the movie then is these 2 guys leave the office and fade in on the scene where the girl is and they walk in and begin. And at the end, she's left all alone and it's time for her to be delivered. It was a story that made sense. And a lot of this thing about the strangulation bit was built into the script because she had been caught and sent to a psychiatrist. She had been caught strangling herself because it made her cum. And a simple fact of the matter is that I've had at least 4 different models, and some young ladies that I've played with privately since, that absolutely cum their asses off after about 40 seconds of strangulation. You need to let them down so that their toes can touch, let them breathe, give them a little time to get a good supply of oxygen and pick 'em up again and they'll cum again.

R: Kind of a dangerous game.

JB: It is. You have to know what you're doing and it's not a game for someone to play that's fucking crazy. You're doing this because the girl gets off on it that way better than any other way. It's not common. I don't recommend that anybody try this with their wife or girlfriend. They'll wind up either in jail or divorced or both.

R: Now, in the video interview that I saw that you taped with Sarge, you said you got started in this business by accident. Which begs the question...how exactly did you get started in this by accident?

JB: Well, when I was getting my degree in cinematography, I had a student advisor, who was actually younger than I was. When it came time for me to do my graduate portfolio, he suggested I simply exploit one subject, just do one thing and do it very well, and he suggested detective novel covers. And as a student in 1970, in the university where I was attending, the photography department had no rules against nudity. And I didn't have a whole lot of problem finding some girls that were willing to do this. And each photo that I made was bondage. Big time. I built little scenes, what we call in photography a vignette, and I had the university studio at my disposal. I made some wonderful 35mm slides. I built a little scene on a huge seamless paper background. And then using a thing called a photo compositor, my finished products were actual size of what would be a fictitious detective novel book cover.

And I found out from my advisor about a year after I was gone from school that the head of the department is the one who recommended the bondage because the head of the department liked bondage. And he didn't know that I knew a hell of a lot about it. Then subsequently I sold some of those pictures and I met the advisor in a bar again around Christmas and he gave me the address of House of Milan Incorporated in California. I sent some slides there and I got a phone call from Barbara and I was in business.

R: So what was Barbara Behr like to work with?

JB: Oh, very good. She let me do whatever it was I wanted to do within the confines of whichever way her advisors and she thought the legal wind might be blowing, which way it might shift. There were periods of time for months that I had to keep the girls' panties on. Then there were periods of time, when okay, you can take their panties off now. Of course, I was restricted so heavily. You couldn't show anything being inserted. No sex. Virtually 90% of what's done today, I couldn't do.

R: Now did Barbara Behr ever actually appear in any of the House of Milan films?

JB: Oh, no. She was there on a couple of the big sync sound movies, she was there shooting stills. Bishop was there once with a secondary, handheld camera. No, she had no involvement whatsoever. She was a good businessperson. And she treated me...she was fair. For what I thought at the time, she was fair.

R: Now, you mentioned Bishop, are you talking about the artist Bishop?

JB: Yeah. See, people don't realize how much things change. This was years ago. There was no treatment for pancreatic cancer. Nothing. Bishop had pancreatic cancer. There's no surviving it. It's a long, slow, miserable, agonizing death. He wasn't going to go there. He wasn't going to do it. So...he killed himself.

R: I wasn't aware he had killed himself.

JB: Yeah, but he didn't have a helluva lot of choice. What are you gonna do? Live like an animal for 2 or 3 years before finally die in agony? That's stupid.

R: So what was his role with the company?

JB: I don't know. He did fantastic artwork. I was only in the offices in California a few times. He was just an employee that did artwork and shot stills, typing...I know they made some movies of their own. But after I got started making the silent movies, a lot of them just quit. They couldn't come close to doing what I was doing.

R: Now, you obviously had an interest in bondage before you actually got hired...

JB: Let me cut to the chase. You've got to remember that I hit puberty in the early 50s. There was no plastic, there no cell phones, there were no computers, there wasn't even television. And so the only erotica available from the 20s on until the late 60s was Esquire magazine. But the thing that was available in every feed store, every garage, every auto mechanic's place, hardware stores, were these beautiful, huge, sometimes 3-foot tall calendars with artwork. The pin-up girl. This was the era of the pin-up model. These things were so sexy, but that's the only thing there was...with the exception of...at that time, in the late 40s, early 50s...the men's magazines. Now, this was immediately after World War II. Every cover, and there's a hundred different titles, but they're all Men. Man's World. Men In Action. Action. True...and every damn one of them had an illustration, some of them quite good, of some beautiful girl being tortured by Japs or Nazis.

R: Yes, I'm a big fan of the men's magazines covers. In fact, I run a picture on the board every day, and it seems like we always get the most comments whenever I run one of those old-fashioned men's magazine artworks. People love them.

JB: Would you be interested in having artwork...a copy of the original magazine and then, what I was going to call these things, "The Men's Magazines The Way You Wished They Were".

R: You talking about with nudity?

JB: That would be that they're now nude. And the things that were being implied are now being done. I'm a good artist.

R: Well, you know, I've actually seen some not-very-good recreations where manipulators will take the original covers and they'll digitally remove the clothing. Some of them are pretty good but most aren't that good.

JB: Well, when I send you some of the crap that I've done just for shits and giggles, just for fun, you'll have a heart attack.

R: I dunno, I've seen a lot!

JB: Well, you haven't seen anything this good. Because I use the original style and technique of the original artists. It looks like the real thing.

R: Sarge says you're quite an artist, so I'd be interested in seeing that. Maybe we can run them for the board.

JB: I'm close to being as good at drawing women as Vargas. When I was a kid, about 7 or 8 years old, I would see these pin-up calendars. They made my cock hard. So I started drawing these things. Secretly, of course. I'd have been beat to death if my dad had found out. And I started teaching myself how to change the position. And so I was doing these girls in scenes of torture. I was a damn fine artist by the time I was 8 or 9 years old. So I started drawing these things as a kid...bondage. And it just went from there. It just was a natural thing.

R: What was the story with the whole Blakemore/Whitman names?

JB: Well, I don't mean to be arrogant or flippant, but that was just bullshit. We had finished the first sync-sound movie, um...um...what was it, Rude Revenge?

R: Bittersweet.

JB: Right, Bittersweet Revenge. And we had the cameras packed up, all the crew had left, it was time to go, Barbara needed to get on the train, and she said, "Wait, I've got to have a name. What's your name?" I just said "Jason Whitman". I just pulled it out of thin air. And then some time went by, and I went with "Jeremy Whitmore". Just because she needed a name. I didn't give a shit one way or another. I could care less. And I have no idea where the "John Blakemore" came from. Somebody gave me that name in California and it stuck.

R: So do you have a preference as to what you want to be known as now?

JB: Well, I guess I'll stick with John Blakemore. It sounds good to me. It's an easy name. Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for supper.

R: So was there an actual photo editor working for HOM named John Blakemore?

JB: I think so.

R: Was that his real name?

JB: I don't know. Sarge told me that somebody in California...I'm still vague on where the Blakemore came from, but that moniker got laid on it and I guess it stuck.

R: I know people went by aliases, so that may not have been the actual guy's name.

JB: Yeah, I don't know. I think there might have been somebody with that name and it got stuck on my stuff somehow or the other.

R: But you don't have a problem with that?

JB: No, I don't care. I was never doing anything for notoriety anyway. I didn't want to be known. Absolutely not, Jesus. I still don't.

R: That's why you wore the mask this most recent time, right?

JB: Absolutely.

R: When you began with HOM, did you get started with just photo shoots, or was it actual video loops at the time?

JB: No, I started with shooting stills. And after the first couple of months, Barbara started a new magazine called "Bondage Classics" that didn't have anything in it but my work.

R: Right, I have a few of those magazines at home.

JB: I'd love to have copies of them. Because I have nothing. Anyway, somewhere within the first year or year and a half, she asked me if I could do movies. Duh! Hey Barb, I have a degree in cinema. Yeah, I can make movies. And so I started making these silent movies. They were 16mm. I did the editing. She wanted them to be 15 to 20 minutes long. They were called loops and they went into machines that were coin-fed. I didn't even know what a loop was until she explained it to me. And then, several more years went by and when we made Bittersweet Revenge, that was the first attempt at directing a full-length, sync sound movie. And that was shot with a CP-16 with Mitchell mags and it's a lot of work.

R: The CP-16, that's a camera?

JB: Yes sir. That's a 16mm movie camera. That was the state of the art camera at the time. The CP-16 was used by every news department in the country.

R: How how many people generally would work on creating your films?

JB: I did all the writing. I wrote the thing myself. I directed it. I acted in it. I had a person to run the boom for the microphone, because you had a separate sound system. That's why you used the clapstick so the editor can synchronize the sound with his editing. However many girls were in it, and however many guys, the sound person, me, and that's about it.

R: Let me ask you, how did you procure the models, that is, how did you talk them into doing the work to begin with?

JB: Well, my very first model was a circuit dancer at a go-go place. There was no topless. In fact, nowhere in the country was there topless. But this girl was built like a brick outhouse and I just walked up to her and told her who I was and what I did and that I needed a model. I said it would pay 100 bucks for one little film, take about 2 hours, and she said sure.

R: So you told her up front exactly what was involved and that she would be tied up?

JB: Sure. Of course. You can't talk a girl into doing this. She either wants to or she doesn't want to. If she wants to, she will. Just be up front. Just be honest and make no bones about it. She said, "What's involved?" And I said you being tied up in 4 different positions, maybe 5. Some of them will be pretty strenuous. I may put a rope between your legs and pull it up so you're on your tiptoes because your pussy is being cut in half. And she said, "Oh God, that sounds awful. I love it!"

R: Now, did you make that same offer to other women and did they turn you down?

JB: I was turned down maybe...oh, 20% of the time. But I had school teachers, office workers, wives, dancers...it didn't matter where they came from. What mattered was what they looked like and what they were wearing that told me they were safe to approach. If they were wearing an ankle bracelet on both ankles and had spiked heels and dangly earrings and looked like a million bucks, that's a potential model. Absolutely. If they're not gorgeous, don't bother. Just pick the prettiest ones you can find, that are the sexiest. They're sexy for a reason. They are aware of their sexuality. They like it. They display it. They want to be seen. They want to be looked at. Basically, they want to know in their own minds that they're making men's cocks get hard. And so that was one of my lines. "You want to have maybe 50 thousand guys jacking off, looking at pictures of you?"

R: Where exactly were you approaching these women?

JB: Well, where they worked, in a bar, when they got off work, say, waiting tables. I mean, anywhere.

R: That just strikes me as odd that you would just go up to somebody's workplace when they're sitting at their desk and make an offer like that.

JB: Well, you've got to keep in mind what she looks like when she's sitting there behind her desk in the Mayor's office as the senior receptionist and she's sitting there with her skirt up to her ass, with her toes pointed, kicking one foot, showing all the cleavage the law will allow. I'm not running any risk.

R: If it's not too personal of a question...and you don't have to answer this, but 3 different people have asked about this...did you actually get to "play" with some of the actresses off-camera?

JB: Over the years that I did that work, I had probably 4 girls that were very dear friends. One would quite often call and say she wanted to have lunch with me. We would meet at the studio and I would do things to her that I couldn't possibly do on film.

R: Such as...?

JB: Such as whip her pussy...oh, I'm not even gonna go there. There's still the law. And most of what I did would have been illegal and is probably still illegal. But it was consensual. They got off on it.

R: But in a consensual relationship, that's not illegal, is it?

JB: Well, it doesn't matter. For all you guys and girls out there, it does not matter what is legal and what is not legal. What matters is that the police will use any means, illegal included, to destroy your life. They will lose in court. They will not be successful in prosecuting you but they will have completely succeeded in destroying your life. It will take all the money you can get. You may lose your house, your car, your family. Although you're innocent, that doesn't make any difference. Make no mistake. This is not the land of the free. This is the land of the court. And the courts are not fair and they are not honest. Now, the court will maybe throw a thing out, but the police have had the time and the media to wreck your life before that ever happens.

R: Are we talking first-hand experiences here?

JB: Sure.

R: Okay, I won't go into that.

JB: No, don't want to.

R: Right, I understand.

JB: And another thing you asked about, I'll tell you. See, I had learned some things over the years. Way back in the 60s, there were a bunch of us guys in a group therapy session. We didn't call it that then, but that's what it was. There was a man there who was an Osage Indian. And he had a beautiful wife. Anyway, finally, he spoke. And the rest of us were like "What? The Chief can talk!" And he says, "I'm so sick and tired of you white guys thinking your dick means something to women. They don't give a damn about your cock. Look at this." And he stuck his tongue out and ran it up the bridge of his nose, and I am not exaggerating, he actually wiggled the top of his tongue between his eyebrows. And that's all he did.

Then, years later, I was running camera at a TV station where were taping a show for broadcast later. The host of a talk show was interviewing a famous pimp. And he asked the pimp, "How do you control a stable of 25 women without threats of violence or the use of drugs?" And the man immediately responded, "One must become a master at the art of cunnilingus". Well, the owner of the TV station made him bleep the word "cunnilingus" because this was in the 70s. Can't say the word "cunnilingus". But it hit me like a diamond bullet. Oh! What this guy had told me years ago now has been collaborated.

And so...I think it was my second or third model, I don't even know who it was, but I had ended the shoot and finished the set of stills, and I purposely had her tied in a position where her pelvis was arched up. Her pussy was right there available. She's still tied up and gagged. And when I shot the last shot, I just turned off the lights and simply went down and started eating her pussy. And she didn't protest. And that led to my models bringing other girls. I didn't even have to look for them. They came to me. Because I had established a reputation of being the best pussy eater they had ever seen. And that is not a joke.

So all those guys out there: you will get women to do a helluva lot more if you will take what seems to be an absolutely excruciatingly long period of time of very gentle teasing and touching, you can get her to a point that when you do touch her pussy, she just explodes. Because she's now anticipating it so much. Slow down, guys. Learn to eat pussy. And it doesn't have to be hard or rough. Very, very light, very gentle. Women are not like us, in case you haven't figured that out.

R: Right, they're a lot softer and bumpier.

JB: But that was a tremendous help because I established a rapport. I had a personal relationship with each girl that ever worked for me. I knew them, they knew me, they knew where I lived, they met my wife. You know, you don't go to the agency and have one sent over. That don't work. You can't make good movies that way. The girl has to know you, she has to trust you. She has to understand what it is you're trying to do.

R: So basically, that first model had the pleasurable experience with you. She told her friends and that's how you got your models?

JB: She told another friend who told a friend of hers and that girl happened to be a girl I knew as Dixie. I can't tell you what her stage name was. Was it Lana?

R: I know who you're talking about. I'm not real good at remembering the names, either, though. But generally, it's been my experience that attractive women usually have attractive friends

JB: Absolutely. You know, you can't compare apples and giraffes. The way things were when I was working is apples and the way things are today is giraffes. I don't know that the kind of movies that I made back then could be made today. Well, of course, they could, but it would have to be a willing model that was willing to put the time in for her payment of $1000 or more. For a 2-day shoot on a sync sound movie, the girls got $250. That was good money then. I don't know what good money is today. I have no yardstick to compare.

I know that there are young women out there who really like doing this that don't get to do it. I've had models that had moved away from here, that came back for a long weekend...with the fiance. I had to show him how to treat her, how to whip her. How to tie her up, the things she liked having done to her. Because he didn't have a clue! And she was going nuts. She loved the guy but she wasn't going to marry him unless he found out how to whip her pussy right.

R: Let me ask you, can you tell me specifically about one of your most famous models, Rene Baker? Can you tell me about you came to work with her?

JB: She was a 4th degree black belt. She was arrogant. She was stuck up. She also had one of the tightest pussies I ever had. I enjoyed screwing her brains out. She was difficult to work with when other girls were involved because she always wanted to put 'em down. She liked to be superior. She was a good model, but she was kind of a bitch. I didn't particularly like her personally. I liked working with her but I didn't like her as a person.

R: Do you know what became of her?

JB: No, I don't.

R: How about one of my favorite models, Anne Bruno? You know who I'm talking about?

JB: Oh, I know who you're talking about. Her nickname was Kat. I worked on her for about 2 years, trying to get her to model for me. There is one loop of her with her breasts bound with wire. I remember that shoot so distinctly. George was running camera and Kat would not shut up. I mean she just blabbermouth, bla, bla, bla. Finally, in the movie I gagged her and George whispered to me and said, "Thank God! You should have gagged that bitch an hour ago!" (laughing)

The still photography that I did of her, that I've seen some of, she was fat. When I did the one movie of her, she had a pretty good body, but man, she had a beautiful pair of breasts. And a beautiful mouth.

R: She was in Punished 2, right? The one where you tied up her tits?

JB: Yeah, and she looked pretty fat in that one, because she's tied to a section of scaffolding. But Kat's thing wasn't movies or stills. Once she broke the ice, she loved to drive around in my Maverick, which was pretty low, and pull up beside pickup trucks and pull her dress up and let 'em see her pussy. Show 'em her boobs. You know, prick tease! And that got her cranked. That's what turned her on, was teasing. That's not all that uncommon.

R: Do you know what became of Anne Bruno?

JB: Nope, I have no idea.

R: How about Sharon Montgomery? She's another popular one.

JB: I have no idea who that is.

R: You don't know who Sharon Montgomery is?

JB: No, I don't know these girls' stage names hardly at all. The best model I ever had, I don't know her stage name was but I loved her to death. And we're still good friends.

R: Sharon Montgomery was the one who starred in Curiosity Excited the Kat. Do you know who I'm talking about?

JB: Yeah, she lives about 15 miles from me now. And she still looks as she did. She has horses. She's a professional rigger. She works high, setting up things for big concerts. And I see her every once in a while. We've been great friends for years.

R: What do you remember about that film?

JB: See, during that period of time, I rented space in a huge...more than a city block...square building. Of course, I was making movies that had a story. So I built all kinds of sets. I shot, I don't know how many movies in the exact same space. But I moved shit around. I collected old tires and bells and junk, you know, stuff to build a set, to make a background. In Curiosity Excited the Kat, see, I wanted to call it Curiosity Killed the Kat. Uh uh, can't use the word "killed". So it got mutated into Curiosity Excited the Kat, which just blew the whole damn thing, in my opinion.

R: Let me ask you about the Erotic Perversion series, because that's my favorite footage of anything that you ever shot.

JB: Mine, too. At the time, the laws in the United States prohibited any form of penetration, or sex with bondage, or actual torture and so I made these films expressly for the European market, to be taken out of the country. They were not even edited here. I had to hand deliver the raw footage. It was never out of my possession. I put it in Barbara's hands; she in turn put it in the hands of someone from Europe. And even then, it was probably risky, although the film had not yet even been developed. It was raw footage that had not yet been developed. And it went out of the country and it did not come back. I was rather shocked to find out a couple years ago that some of this stuff is available.

R: It is available if you know where to look, but usually the prints are not very good. When I first saw the footage, I was blown away. It was silent, but that was and is some of the harshest stuff I had ever seen...ever.

JB: Well, that's when I was first able to do some of the things that I wanted to do.

R: Specifically, what was not allowed at the time?

JB: No blow jobs. I guess you could, but not in America. You couldn't have any kind of sex. No sexual intercourse of any kind. No fellatio. No cunnilingus, you couldn't eat pussy. You'd couldn't show a pussy spread open...more than half the time, I had to keep their panties on with crotchropes. It was so restrictive. Of course, this goes without saying; it's common sense: no guns, no threat of death, don't even imply maiming. And that should still go today. That's over the line.

R: Even in a fantasy film?

JB: Well, it depends on if the market wants it, but whoever does it better be damn careful. They better not make it in this country.

R: Obviously. How did you find the girl from the Erotic Perversion shorts who took a lot of the needles in her boobs?

JB: Oh, they were the same girls. Rene Baker was one of them.

R: Rene Baker was in the Erotic Perversions?

JB: Yeah.

R: Do you remember which particular one?

JB: No, I don't. She was in several. I needled her pussy and her breasts more than once.

R: One of the most notorious things I ever saw in the Erotic Perversion loops was when you actually hung a girl up with a meathook through her pussy. Now, was that Rene Baker?

JB: No, that was a married lady. Her husband was in the Navy. She was a waitress at a real nice restaurant. I saw her one night and her face and her legs...I just went wow! And I waited until she got off work and I stopped her in the friggin' parking lot. I talked to her and she said okay. That was a hay hook, by the way, not a meathook. It's used for moving bales of hay. I had that hay hook when I was kid.

At first she did it just for the money, but within a couple of times after the shooting was done, we got to having wild sex with her tied up. I scratched an itch that she had always had. She had fantasies as a pubescent girl of bondage and torture and she liked it. And the hook...it's there. You see it going in and it was there.

R: We also saw some blood dripping at her feet.

JB: Yeah, it made her pussy bleed. And I also ran fishhooks through her nipples. Of course, to get 'em out, you've got to take a set of dikes and cut the barb off to pull 'em out. In personal play and stuff, I fishhooked a lot of girls' nipples.

R: Were the women aware beforehand that you were going to be doing this to them?

JB: Sure, because I was working from a script. I was working from a written shooting script that has shot by shot. Follow the script. You make a shot, you scratch it off. You don't have to shoot it in sequence, but it makes editing a lot easier.

R: Now, I'm sure there were many occasions where you would show somebody your script and they would say "Well, this is okay, but I don't know, needles through the...?"

JB: No, that didn't happen. I asked what were the rules. And she said for Europe, there aren't any. No threat of death. No severe cutting. No shooting, no guns, but just about whatever your sick mind can come up with is okay. So I never did anything where she said "well, you can't do that".

R: Still, you took an actual hay hook and stuck it in a woman's pussy and hung her up in the air from it. Weren't you afraid of possibly seriously hurting her?

JB: No, because the weight on that hook was on her pubic arch. The tip wasn't putting pressure in her vaginal canal. Of course, the thing was in her. It did make her bleed a little bit. Unfortunately, you couldn't tell with her when she was cumming and when she wasn't. I think she had an orgasm 3 times in that movie, and it just pissed me off because I couldn't tell she was getting off until was over. And then she told me and I went what? Oh god! No, please! (laughing)

R: That's pretty wild.

JB: Barbara cautioned me about that. There are a lot of women that you don't want as models. They get off on it, but it's such a personal thing that it doesn't translate to film. It's a waste.

R: Personally, that's one thing I hate in today's movies. They're obviously very consensual and it seems like the whole purpose is to make the woman cum.

JB: From what Sarge has told me, this is because...not the government...but the credit card companies...

R: ...of which, incidentally, the government is behind...

JB: Yeah, but this is to keep the credit card companies happy. So basically...they can do the damned interview beforehand, and do it afterwards, and the person that's buying the thing can just ignore it. Fine, do the interview, but then between the beginning interview and the ending interview, make a goddamned movie that men want to see. And that means they want to see kidnapping, torture and rape. That's what they want to see. They don't wanna see the girl cumming. But get her to the point that she's screaming and begging to be allowed to cum and don't let her! The whole point of this sort of fantasy is to punish these prick-teasing, good-looking honeys, not to let them have a good time.

R: That's just it. And there's this one particular company that does incredible bondage, but honestly, most of their stuff is unwatchable because it seems like every scene concludes with a guy taking a vibrator to a woman's pussy and letting her cum. And I'm thinking, what's the point?

JB: Well, I used a vibrator, but I used it in a way that it's strapped and tied between her legs and she's tied up and she cums so much that she don't want to cum anymore but she can't stop. It becomes a torture. It's prolonged. She can't get away from it. And they wind up just going crazy, struggling like mad because exhaustion sets in. If you force a woman to cum enough times, she'll just lose it.

R: Getting back to the Erotic Perversions loops, you're saying there was no simulated blood? All the blood that we saw was real? It wasn't enhanced at all?

JB: Sometimes it was not real. But the penetration with the spiked dildo...that was real. Hooks through their nipples was real.

R: Wait a minute. The penetration with the spiked dildo was real?

JB: Yes.

R: Was it a real spiked dildo or were the spikes rubber?

JB: No, it wasn't rubber. It was an inch and half dowel that had small nails drilled into it that had been cut off and filed down to where they weren't super sharp. They still broke flesh inside her pussy. Hell, when I did that movie with that girl, she had used that thing. She took it home with her before we ever made that movie.

R: You're kidding. So she was definitely into it then?

JB: Oh, she loved having the inside of her pussy cut. She wanted me to take a knife to her nipples and makes slices in them that would bleed. So she could deal with blood running down her breasts. I know another lady that absolutely gets off on the feel and the sight of blood running from her nipples.

See, here's another thing that nobody today knows about. You have to work with that model's brain. You have to get in her head. One of the easiest things that makes life wonderful for her is to have a couple of full-length mirrors so they can see themselves. So they can watch that "other girl" and know which way to twist and how to pose. I tried at all times, no matter how the girl was tied up, I wanted her to look sexy, I wanted her to be graceful. You will not see a movie that I ever made where a girl's got her foot at a 90 degree angle. That is just abhorrent. Standing flat-footed...my god. I would smack you upside the head for doing that. Who wants to see a naked woman standing flat-footed? That's just plain anti-erotic. Put her on her toes. If she doesn't have on spiked heels, then keep her up on her tiptoes.

R: Are you saying you have some sort of a shoe fetish? Or a foot fetish?

JB: No.

R: You just think women look sexier that way?

JB: I don't think, I know. Follow the money. The big corporations that spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on erotica like Playboy, Penthouse, Score...hell, the ballet, the Rockettes, you name it. Everybody in the world except the porno makers know that women are sexy when they're on their toes. That's why high heels were invented during the Menoa period, before the Greeks, for Christ's sake. Putting women up on their tiptoes has been a constant for 2000 years. It isn't going to go away. Why is the ballerina taught to point her toes? What's the point of a ballerina dancing on the tip of her toes? It's to accentuate every curve of her body. Flat-footed doesn't do squat.

R: I guess that makes sense. I never really thought about it. One more question about the Erotic Perversion videos...you had a segment in there that I figured had to be simulated where you actually took a blow torch and heated up a nail and pressed it into a girl's skin.

JB: See, I was being careful. Barbara told me that certain things like that..you know, you don't want the President to know too much, so that he has plausible deniability. With that particular model...she was the same model that took the spiked dildo...hell yes, I put half a dozen good burns on her breasts. But I shot it in a way that it could be edited to where there was a question as to whether it actually happened or not. Plausible deniability. It's called Cover Your Ass.

R: Now, somebody was behind the camera and you were the one on camera doing all these things, in other words, right?

JB: Yeah.

R: Was there anyone else, obviously not in this particular series, but with HOM that had the same rule that you had?

JB: No, it was just me. My cameraman acted in a couple of movies, the two Tourist Trap movies. Barbara's husband was in one of the Tourist Trap movies. He was the fat guy at the beginning that's puking inside a chain link fence. And I've never seen that movie. I would love to have a copy of both of the Tourist Traps.

R: You've never seen Tourist Trap ever?

JB: I've never seen either one of them.

R: That's wild. A lot of people consider that your best work.

JB: Well, I would think so.

R: One of the best filmmakers working today named Rick Masters, his company is ZFX, made a whole series of films called "South of the Border" that were clearly based on Tourist Trap. He posted to the forum and said that Tourist Trap was a huge influence for him. He's a big fan of your work.

JB: I haven't seen those, either. I'm going to go out to the Internet for this group and beg. I have done my little dance, I'm playing the violin in the subway, my hat is laying on the floor. Please put DVDs in it. Because I can't get 'em. I can't go online for reasons that we won't even go into. I'm in a wasteland. I'm in a desert. I'm totally at the mercy of people who will give me DVDs.

R: A few people have asked about this. What was your best experience on the set?

JB: I wouldn't say I ever had a best experience on the set. It was work. It's just work. There was no turn on.

Here's a good example. There was a fellow who was one of the newsmen when I was art director at this TV station. He left this part of the country and moved to another state. But he loved this stuff. He was fascinated by it. And he kept bugging me and bugging me. He wanted to see one of these movies being made. So he drove about 800 miles. He got there and someone let him in the door. I didn't even realized he had arrived.

At the time, we were making The Experiment and Dixie was hanging spreadeagled, not holding onto anything, and she was in the midst of an orgasm. And we ran out of film and I called cut. And she was hanging there, thrashing, cumming her ass off, and at the word "cut", that head snaps up and she looks at him and says, "George! God damn it! Don't you touch my ham sandwich!" (laughing) It just shattered him.

R: That's pretty wild.

JB: Well, she was a precious one. Because we were having a really hard time with that Experiment at a different location. It was late in the day, everybody was tired, people were getting pissed off and the scene called for her to be eating Rene Baker's pussy. On the set, it was about to fall apart. I was about to lose my whole crew. And she walks in and puts her hands on her hips and says, "Let me tell you. I don't eat pussy, I get drunk and feed it to my friends!" She saved the day.

R: That's too funny.

JB: During this stuff, it was not a turn on. I don't think I ever had a hard-on in my entire life working on a movie because you're WORKING. You have to have your wits about you. You're thinking of the next shot. There are a million things you have to have in your head to make a movie. It's very attention-intensive work. You don't have time to relax. That's why, with some of my girls, after we had finished a shoot, we would meet for a few hours after everyone was gone and get it out of our system. We would play for 3 or 4 hours and do whatever we wanted to do, but that was private, you know?

And another thing, and I talked to Sarge about this, too. It's strange. It's almost impossible for me to get any kind of arousal looking at my own work.

R: Because you're so close to it?

JB: Because I did it. I made it. I know what's real and what ain't. I know about "God damn it. Don't you touch my ham sandwich". That's not in the movie, you know? I know about all those things. I know about who couldn't stop sneezing. Who got the hiccups. Getting the hiccups will shoot a movie in the ass, man. These are real things, real people. Too cold, too hot, hungry, thirsty. Girls sweat, you've gotta keep them hydrated. There's all kinds of things. Making a movie is a job. Period. It is not a turn on. We're making the movie to turn on other people.

R: And what's sad is the fact that you've never even seen some of your own sound-sync movies at all.

JB: Hey, it's been so long, maybe my cock will get hard if I see Tourist Trap. I'll let you know.

R: Okay, fair enough. What was the worst experience you ever had on the set?

JB: With Rene Baker, making one of the Tourist Traps. She insulted one of the other girls in her face. The other girl cried. She was such a rude bitch and just insulted this girl and I took her to the side and said, "God damn it. You pull that shit one more time and I don't give a damn about this movie. Your ass is outta here." There is no call for that. She was very difficult, like I told you. When there were other girls involved, she was a real bitch. I enjoyed whipping that woman. Because she fuckin' had it coming.

R: Now, I think the bug scene in The Escape is one of your finest moments. You remember the movie where they had the two escaped female criminals? There's a scene toward the end where one of the criminals is strapped down on the ground and the one lady takes a jarful of bugs...

JB: I've never seen that movie! That was my favorite model...the victim. I've never seen that movie. I'd love to, because I absolutely adored her to death. She was just...oh god, she was exquisite. That incredible little body of hers...No, I've never seen that movie. That was shot up in the woods about 15 miles from here up in the mountains at an old abandoned house.

R: Now, she was the one who was tied down and getting the spiders and crickets poured on her, right?

JB: Right, that was her, my favorite model. [Editor's note: I'm pretty sure the model he is talking about is Karen Arthur, who played the main victim in The Escape.]

R: So you've never seen the movie...period? It's a good one. It's a very good one.

JB: I've never seen it. I would love to. That's one of the movies that I really wanted to see. Because I think that's the only sync-sound movie that she's in. And I tell ya, I love that girl.

R: And she was also hanging upside-down toward the end when you were screwing...was it Rene Baker?

JB: I don't know. We're talking about how many years ago? And how many movies I've made and I'm supposed to remember all this stuff? It's been so long. And at the time...hey, out of sight, out of mind. When I got one done, it's gone. I didn't think about it. I'm now working on what are we gonna do next.

R: Are there any particular scenes that you shot, where you actually did get to see the finished product, that you were particularly proud of the job you did?

JB: Oh lord, I can't tell you. There were so many that I thought were hot as hell. That's like asking you which kitten you love the most.

R: Right, I guess that makes sense. What states were most of your films shot in?

JB: We ain't gonna go there. We're not going there. Uh uh.

R: Okay, not a problem. When you shot the original 16-mm loops, how much time was spent on pre-production, as far as scripting, scheduling the models, scheduling locations and building stuff?

JB: Well, I shot all over the place. Just targets of opportunity. Sometimes out in the woods, sometimes old abandoned buildings, wherever I could find. And I will admit, if I was doing it today, I wouldn't begin to do some of the things I did because I was taking a risk of being discovered.

R: You're talking about shooting outdoors?

JB: Yeah, you never know who's coming to come wandering through the woods or in some old building.

R: Did that ever happen? Were you ever caught?

JB: It happened one time, yes, and it caused quite a problem. It was resolved but that got me an IRS audit. That's our government, boys and girls. I was doing nothing wrong, nothing illegal but it pissed off some people and so the Internal Revenue Service was sicced on me and got their pound of flesh.

R: Now, was there someone directing the models during the shoots or was that always just you?

JB: Just me. I was God. There was nobody calling the shots but me.

R: So it was you performing, it was you directing, and I'm assuming you had a cameraman. So was it you, the cameraman and the model and that was it?

JB: Yeah. Now, if it was a sound movie, there had to be somebody running sound. And usually, when it was a sound movie, Barbara was usually there to shoot stills. Because you have to have stills for the box covers, you know?

R: So in a typical 16-mm shoot, how many hours would it take typically to shoot one loop?

JB: Well, I would shoot enough to make at least 4 or 5 loops at a time and I'd be done in 3 hours. I did almost all the editing in the camera. I was using a 16-mm Bolex with a 3-lens turret. It was hand-cranked; you wind up the spring and it gives you about 30 seconds of film time. And then you've got to stop and wind the spring up again. World War II was shot with a Bolex. It is a wonderful German camera.

R: In a 15-minute edited film loop, how much footage did you end up using? Was there a lot that ended up on the cutting room floor?

JB: Shooting loops? None. Not hardly any, because I knew what I was going to do. I was editing in the camera. I built my movie in the camera.

R: When you were actually doing the production, did the actresses have safe words to get out of something if it hurt too much?

JB: No. Nobody had heard of such. Well, yeah, there was, but we didn't call it a safe word. If something was really wrong, the girl yells "Cut". Or even if she's gagged, she yells (simulating gagged sound) ""Cwut, cwut, cwut".

R: Did that happen a lot?

JB: No, very rarely. If you're careful and get your rigging done right, the girls are gonna be okay. She may be in pain, but it's not damaging.

R: Another question is what ever happened to all the film that was shot from those movies? As some of the scenes in Tourist Trap are tantalizingly brief, I was wondering if longer scenes might be rotting away in some rusty file cabinet.

JB: I haven't actually seen that movie, but no, I don't think so. I don't know, but I doubt it. I seem to recollect that some were brief, maybe because of what was being done, that was as long as she could stand it. Or maybe it was filler. One of the biggest problems you have in making a movie is...what do you cut to next? You know, any movie-maker in his right mind will shoot pictures of the fuckin' clock, of a mouse running across the floor, of ANYTHING to give yourself a way out of a scene to segue to something else.

R: Right, one of our readers was reviewing one of the Bondage Classics titles and he made some humorous comments about how you kept repeatedly cutting away to a shot of a record playing on a turntable.

JB: You wind up getting yourself into problems and sometimes when it's all done and it's time to go edit a week later, you find I don't have anywhere to go here. I don't have the cutaway that I need. And so you've just gotta use what you've got. And from a cinematic point of view, it sucks.

R: Someone else mentioned that they are a fan of the old Bondage Classics and the Punished series and also one called "Helpless" that he only recently found in downloadable form. His question was, were there still photos taken during the Punished and Helpless shoots? There are many great scenes among those that he wanted to see good quality stills from.

JB: I laid the movie camera down and I shot stills as I went along.

R: Oh, you shot all the stills yourself?

JB: Yeah, there was no one there but me and her. If she got turned on, we'd have to stop and fuck, you know?

R: Did that happen a lot?

JB: Yeah. When I shot loops and stills, it was usually just me and the girl. With a new model, I always worked with her alone the first time for sure, and usually the first 3 or 4 times. See, rule number one with a new model, right off the bat, shoot a set of stills. And in the second tie, make sure you've got a rope between her legs. When you untie her, feel that rope. If it ain't wet, you ain't got a model. She will not work out, period. Don't even waste your time. I don't care how gorgeous she is. If the rope is wet, you've got a model. My goal was, if she had a wet pussy, I was gonna eat it when I got done with the shoot. And then after maybe the third time, I was gonna fuck her.

R: How about earlier when you said you didn't get aroused when shooting?

JB: Let me differentiate between making movies and loops. Even though a loop was a movie, it's silent. A movie has full sound. And with the sound movies, there had to be a crew. There had to be several people there. And in those situations, I had to be the director, the manager, the prop master, the script girl...I had to wear all the hats. That pretty much takes care of any sexual arousal. In those situations, I'm making money. And if I don't get it done right, I'm gonna lose money. And I don't know about everybody else, but when it comes down to making or losing money, sex is going to take a back seat.

But after those things were over, there were times that if I had Dottie and Cynthia both in a movie, I had to decide which one I was going to make arrangements with to go back in the studio with after everybody was gone. Usually, it was Cynthia.

R: Which one was Cynthia?

JB: Kelly Long.

R: And Dottie was who?

JB: Dottie was Georgia van Helsing. I had all I wanted from Dottie during the week. Evenings, weekends, you name it, it didn't matter. I'd call Dottie up, or she's call me and we'd meet for "lunch", even it was 4:00 in the afternoon. After we got off work, we'd meet over in the studio for an hour, hour and a half, and I'd just tear her up.

R: I know you don't have a lot of your own movies yourself, in fact, Dan Hawke had to send you a lot of your own movies. Is there anything you're holding onto that hasn't been seen by the public?

JB: No.

R: Because didn't Sarge say that you had given him stills from something that had never been released?

JB: No, I sent him some pictures of personal, private stuff but it was never for the market.

R: We also heard from someone named Jonathan Goble, who apparently was an editor for HOM in the late 80's after you had left. He said that you submitted a home video tape that he had to reject. He said he couldn't even begin to get it past the lawyers since it included sex, bondage, and penetration with objects. Also HOM's owner, Mike, said he didn't want anything to do with it.

JB: Hey, that's news to me. I don't remember ever making a movie that wasn't used. I think he must be confused about who shot it.

R: Well, he said this actually came from you and it was after you left HOM.

JB: Well, when I left HOM, I was done. I didn't do anything else. After the middle of August in '87, I never did another damn thing.

R: Not even home footage?

JB: Well, I shot some stuff for myself but that wasn't for publication. I didn't give it to anybody or send it to anybody.

R: So there was no such video from you, in other words?

JB: No. Absolutely, positively not.

R: Okay. Now, you said you're sort of secluded as far as having access to a lot of today's material. Is there anything you've seen, either from today or back then, that you would compare to your own work?

JB: You have me at a disadvantage. I haven't seen enough to know. What I have seen that came from Dan Hawke and the Sarge has not been even in the ballpark of what I did. Some of it's been very good, but there's no storyline. And this interview thing just slays me. There's no rhyme nor reason.

I do have one that Sarge sent me of Hogtied that doesn't even have the actress's name, but the guy in it looks like he could be John Malkovich's double. That one little movie is really good.

R: Do you remember the name of it?

JB: No, I have no idea. It's not on the disk.

R: Sarge posted that he had showed you some stuff and that what you liked the best was from ZFX. Do you remember that?

JB: Yeah, probably. The stuff that shows it like it is. None of this letting her cum all the time, and repetition and "nice guy" bullshit. You know, hardcore. Rough. Again, the principle involved here, whether people want to talk about it in nice company or not, it doesn't matter. The simple fact of the matter is that in the Western world for the last 2000 years, if you take a young man that's full of testosterone...or an older man that's full of testosterone...and you put him in a situation where he has the place, the equipment and the ability to do anything to a gorgeous young woman that he wants to, with absolutely no repercussions of any kind, he will torture her and rape her. That's the core of what this is about.

R: Right, exactly. And ZFX is about the closest I've seen to having the same vision of what you were putting out for HOM and Cal-Star. All of his films are simulated as far as the actual intercourse, but they're realistic simulations. What I like about Rick's work is that the fantasies he's putting on the screen are totally nonconsensual.

JB: We're making a MOVIE! That's the kind of stuff men like to see. And what's being done with the Japanese? I used to have a neighbor who took a tour of Japan and she came back with stacks of these magazines and little booklets...it was all artwork. But by God! It was the absolutely just the most sadistic stuff I'd ever seen. It was great!

And I find out off of public radio, there was a report about pornography in Japan. And the report said that 85% of everything that came off a printing press in Japan was pornography. It was all pretty much the same genre. Either an evil warlord that used pussy juice to make his elixir to fuck women to death, or it was the errant daughter or wife that the husband or father hired Guido to come kidnap and torture. And these were horrific and it was everywhere. She went to dinner one night to a family restaurant where there were children present, and in the center of the room as they ate their meal was a live display of bondage. This girl was tied up, hoisted up and being whipped...in the restaurant!

R: Yeah, that's just part of the culture out there. They're way ahead of us.

JB: And in Japan they have no rape. It does not happen. Again, it's the old story, the more pornography, the less violence you have in your society. It is a great safety valve. And we will never have it in this country until we get religion and government separated. We do not have separation of church and state.

R: Well, I think people are slowly becoming attuned with the idea that it's not like the Meese Report where porn actually causes rape. If anything, porn gives you a release from whatever dark thoughts you may be having. But what do you consider pushing the envelope too far?

JB: Cutting a girl's nipples off. Any kind of mutilation. Anything that does permanent damage to a girl's body.

R: How about simulated burning? Is that going too far?

JB: No! Even real burning, if they wanna do it. As long as it isn't disfiguring. As long as it doesn't do permanent, serious damage.

R: Well, in one of my old HOM magazines, there was an advertisement for a loop called Red Hot B&D and there's a still where you're actually piling wood between the legs of a woman who's staked out on the ground. The text actually said, "her cruel captor starts a fire between her legs".

JB: Yeah, I built a little line or stack of wood, starting down between her ankles, which of course, her legs were spread real wide, right up to her pussy. I had cleaned the ground real good so that the fire would stay exactly where I wanted it. And I used a little kerosene, just very sparingly, and then I set it on fire. And it's gonna burn closer and closer and closer and closer...until it gets right up between her legs.

R: Was she scared about shooting that scene?

JB: She was...anxious. She had to trust that I wouldn't let it damage her. But it was exciting. Hey, the fear factor. One thing people don't seem to realize is that when a woman is afraid, her pussy gets wet. It's a protective mechanism. In case she's raped, it's well lubricated.

R: Right, but so when I finally got to see the 8mm loop that HOM put out for the Bondage Classics series, they had actually cut that scene. There was no fire at all. There was a jump cut and then suddenly the movie was over.

JB: It was way too hot for this country. Barbara couldn't put that out in America. Because it worked real good.

R: Yeah, because years later, I finally got a hold of the original loop and saw the scenes that had been cut out and to this day, it's probably my favorite HOM loop of all time.

JB: Well, there was another one of those Violence deals. There was a small girl, petite, short reddish-blonde hair...I had her hanging upside down and I put a big candle...I shoved at least 8 inches of candle into her. And there's a good shot right at the end of the sequence where you can't even see candle, all you can see is the flame coming out of her pussy. And it was hot. She was feeling it. [Editor's note: this scene described is actually from the Erotic Perversion loop: Perversion House.]

R: Cool, and that was from one of the Violence movies?

JB: Yep, and there was another whole sequence I shot where Barbara told me, "I'm putting this in the trash. Don't do that again."

R: And what was that?

JB: Oh, I had a girl hung in the Chinese splits. And that's the only time I ever had a girl with a shaved pussy. I loved shaved pussies. Nobody would do it back then, it just wasn't the thing. And it was with Kelly Long. I got her shaved as smooth as a baby's butt and hung in the Chinese splits and held a candle right up under her pussy. And you could see the flame licking across the lips of her pussy and she was screaming for real. I had her coated with baby oil and I had fingers in her, also. But I could feel the heat myself. Her pussy was just about scorched. Didn't quite burn her but came close.

R: Are there any stills or video of that available?

JB: Uh uh. No, hell, a lot of times the best stuff I ever did wound up on the editing room floor.

R: That's too bad.

JB: Well, Barbara's main concern was making money. And to make money, you have to stay in business. And to stay in business, you can't be in jail or in court. And that was a huge problem back then. Huge. Like I said, what the people can do today, if I would have been able to do those things, man, I would made movies that people wouldn't fucking believe.

R: Can you tell me about a movie you made called Violence where you actually ran skewers through a lady's breasts?

JB: Well, in the first place, I had nothing to do with the title. I did not even know about this term Violence 1, 2 and 3 until Sgt Major gave me DVDs of the things.

R: But you did make them, right? Those are your movies?

JB: Yeah, I made all of them.

R: Now unfortunately, before I ever saw that movie, someone had clued me in that they weren't really her actual breasts being skewered, that they were fake, is that correct?

JB: Right. The one in particular is quite an elaborate process of molding and casting with plaster and then using modeling clay onto the mold to literally make big breasts. I had Cynthia use her own breasts for the mold. That had to go through another process, a negative being made, and we used this material that was used to make fishing lures, some kind of squirmy worms, sort of a silicone plastic. It's not latex. I made this false front, like a shirt front. That's why I had her wear a turtleneck.

One of the things I also did to make it appear real, was to make blood come out. This was a great amount of work. I put soda straws inside before I ever poured the mold. If you watch closely, there's one point in that movie where I'm looking for where the straw is, because that straw has been filled with fake blood. And one of the shots is just perfect. When the needle comes out, blood comes out with it. That's because the needle's been run through the hollow part of a soda straw filled with fake blood and when it punctures out of the side, it bled.

R: You've done a lot of needles through breasts before, why didn't you do it in this particular instance?

JB: Well, the breast has to be very firm, and big. And that's hard to come by. And you have to find a younger woman where this is something that arouses her...the obvious agony. She either just wants to take it or likes it or something in the brain chemistry is weird or different that the pain becomes sexual euphoria. And you also have to be very careful to sure that everything is sterile. That is a big requirement. It's not all fun and games, you also have to use common sense.

R: So your model in this case wasn't particularly into that sort of treatment?

JB: Oh, she was. But she didn't have breasts big enough or firm enough to actually do it. But what really disappointed me 20 or 30 years later, when I finally got to see the thing, I was just livid. Whoever did the editing left out the best part of the thing. In that movie, there are a couple of sequences where I'm sticking needles into her pussy but it's very dark and very difficult to see anything. I realized we had bad lighting when we started that and I said "Guys, we've gotta fix the lighting here. This is terrible. This isn't gonna work."

So we corrected it so that we had beautiful lighting. I peeled her pussy open by stabbing needles through the peeled back labia into her leg. Literally nailed it open. Spread it open and kept it spread by 6 needles through each side of her pussy. And you could see right up inside her, this nice hot pink, dripping. It was beautiful. She was so hot, she couldn't see straight. And here her pussy is being held open but with 6 needles through each side and it's not there!

R: What, they actually cut that part?

JB: I don't know who did it or why. Who knows? I had nothing to do with happened to those things after they left my hands undeveloped. Of course, all of those involved had to be cognoscente of the US government and censorship and let's put 'em all in jail and throw away the key.

R: So this was not actually intended for US audiences?

JB: Never. Things change drastically and that's why it's even here today. The only feedback I ever got on that particular movie was when it hit the market in Europe, some women's rights organization protested.

R: Wow, kind of a nice feather in your cap. Must have seemed realistic enough for them, then.

JB: That told me I was successful.

R: Well, today, there's a website out there called Torture Galaxy where they actually have women getting huge skewers put through their breasts...

JB: I'd love to see that.

R: It's pretty wild, but it's consensual so I'm not really all that turned on by it.

JB: My significant other has had a very expensive breast augmentation, done in Denmark. She has enormous breasts but the implants are under the muscle and her breasts are made so huge by her own body fat. And she gets off on having her breasts skewered completely through. It's the sexiest thing you've ever seen to watch a woman cum from that. I'd give anything to have video of that. I didn't know it existed.

R: Oh yeah, without having access to the Internet, your eyes would pop out of their sockets if you could see what was available now.

JB: Well then, you have just become my best friend. Because if you can get me that stuff, I'll be eternally grateful. Nothing I can do for you other than answer questions and try to advise anybody out there who's thinking about doing this, or that are doing it, and show them ways to improve it. Of course, we always have to be mindful of Big Brother.

Now, I've got a question for you. You said this thing about skewering needles completely through the breast...are these nice boobs? Are they pretty?

R: Well, they're not so pretty once they're all covered with blood.

JB: Yeah, but to begin with, are they saggy?

R: No, some of these women are quite attractive.

JB: Wonderful. I'd give you my right nut to have 'em.

R: Well, I'm not really sure I'm interested in that.

JB: No, it probably wouldn't do you much good.

R: Now, you saw some of Dan Hawke's work. What did you think of that?

JB: Some of his work is absolutely superb. And there are 2 or 3 that he sent me where the girl is actually crying real tears. She's obviously in real pain. That's wonderful.

R: To me, Dan is a real special filmmaker. He used to post to our board a lot and I'm a big fan of his work.

JB: There's a couple I saw in the previews in the DVDs he sent me that I want to get a hold of. One of them is this same girl...oh, she's great. She's just terrified. She is one of these young highnesses and she chokes herself trying to get away from him. I mean, she's really straining against that rope around her neck to try to avoid his hands.

R: A couple more questions here. What do you think about the prevalence of tattoos on today's bondage models?

JB: Oh, I hate it. I just hate it. These tattooed women...(groans in dissatisfaction). Hey, if the movie was being made the way the movie ought to be made, I guess I could ignore the tattoos.

R: How about piercings?

JB: Piercings through the lip, though the nose...that sucks. Now, studs in the tongue...have you ever had your cock sucked by a woman who's got one or more studs in her tongue?

R: I've heard it improves fellatio, yes.

JB: Oh, it's fantastic! It is fantastic. My wife has three. Oh God! Piercing through the nipples for purposes of torture, or jewelry...wonderful. I'm not fond of piercing of the labia. It doesn't really do anything.

R: So you don't mind piercings through the nipples as far as somebody in their lifestyle who has studs though her nipples, or rings?

JB: With the jewelry, it's a source of personal excitement. My wife has her nipples pierced and you can put anything through her nipple from 2-inch rings to these little diamond studs that nobody even knows is there. But she does.

R: My real problem with tattoos and piercings is that my ideal fantasy victim would not be the kind of girl who goes out and does all this stuff to her body. I want her to be innocent. I want her to be pure. You don't want to rip her top off and then discover she's already got tattoos on her boobs.

JB: Right, that's counter-productive. That's why I say I abhor them. I hate 'em. If I had the choice, I would not use a model with tattoos.

R: And one last question. Given all the crap that you've had to deal with, especially from the government, would you choose the bondage career path if you had a chance to do it all over again?

JB: If I had enough money to shoot in Mexico or in Europe and I could pick my models off the street, like I always did...I'm not going to use any of these stock models because I want a girl that doesn't have any preconceived notions as to what she has to do and what she doesn't have to do...Yeah, I would, sure. You know, there's a lot involved there. I have an ordinary life. And my wife has her family. My family never knew what I did. My brother knew but nobody else. And her family has no idea that I did that, and I was doing that when we were married. They would have disowned her.

You have to live in a real world. And I this is one of the things that I think is detrimental to people who make this sort of stuff. They get so wrapped up in it that they lose sight of the everyday world. And you don't wanna do that. You still have to have neighbors and relatives and nieces and nephews. You have to stay grounded in reality. Doing work to satisfy fantasies is just that. It's doing work to satisfy fantasies. It should not become your life.

R: Right, I understand. Hey, it's been a real pleasure getting a chance to talk to one of my idols.

JB: Well, I owe it all to Dan Hawke.