Is it John Blakemore or Jason Whitman? It doesn't matter, this is really the guy. After over 20 years, the legendary bondage pioneer finally breaks his silence and talks about his new movie, his amazing career with HOM and Cal-Star, what it was like shooting his classic films, his secret for finding women to tie up ...and which one of his famous bondage models was also a bitch. Also why he kept his girls in high heels, what he thinks about tattoos on today's models and what he considers pushing the envelope too far.
Ralphus: Mr. Blakemore, I just want to say at the very
beginning that this is a real honor to be able to interview you.
You're a true living legend. I've seen just about all your work with HOM
and Cal-Star and I'm a big fan. I also saw the interview you did with
Amber Rayne and Sgt. Major and it was fascinating stuff.
I run an extreme bondage discussion forum called Bring out the GIMP (Girls
In Merciless Peril). When the rest of the readers found out I was going to
be interviewing you, I asked them to write out some questions for you that I
could ask on the phone. The response was pretty overwhelming because they
have the same opinion about you and your work that I do. So there's a lot
of questions and this might take a while because according to Maya Matthews, you
like to talk even more than she does.
Let's start with the most obvious question. You sort of disappeared
after you left Cal-Star. There were rumors you had died, or that you were
living in Europe. Nobody seemed to know what became of you. So why
did you go into hiding?
John Blakemore: Well, I didn't really go into
hiding. It was when Barbara (Behr) at Cal-Star just ended. It was
when the feds shut her down. She was the only contact I had. Things
were so different back then. There was no Internet, basically. The
marketing was by mail, and that's the only person that I knew. And at
the time, things with my wife had evolved to the point that I could have all the
fun and games with her that I wanted to. And I just didn't pursue
it. When Barbara quit, I just quit right along with her. I
didn't want to go looking for someone else. She probably would have been
very helpful with getting me in touch with Lyndon, but there were only 3 or 4
big distributors of magazines and it was mostly just magazines and videos were
just getting started.
R: You say when she quit, was she actually a performer, or
JB: Oh, no, no, no. Barbara ran the business.
She was just a good businesswoman and she had had enough and was tired of the
hassle. So she just decided to retire.
R: So after about 22, 23 years of no activity, why return
JB: Well, the reason why is because the guy who was my
main photographer...he was in the sound movie...oh, the sound movie about the
crazy Vietnam vet...what was that?
R: Doesn't sound familiar.
JB: Oh, The Experiment!
R: Oh, okay. That's one of your titles I've not had
a chance to see.
JB: Oh, that's probably one of the best movies. I
haven't seen it, either.
R: You haven't seen it for years, in other words,
JB: No, I haven't seen it. Period. I have seen
virtually none of the movies I have made because the sound movies were edited in
California and I wound up never getting a copy of most of them. Of course,
that was on VHS, but a lot of them I have never seen.
R: That's pretty amazing that you haven't seen some of
your own work.
JB: Yeah, but part of it is that I had to remain
absolutely, completely anonymous in the part of the country that I live
in. And the community is very religious and you don't mess with God, you
know. They'll get ya. So I stayed as low profile as possible.
I had a full-time job. This was all part-time, always.
Worked me to death. But I didn't push it. There was no
need. Once the thing was done, it was done and I'm ready to start figuring
out what I have to do to make another one.
I know what's in the movie. Hell, I wrote it,
directed it, and some of them I was in, but my cinematographer was the main
character in The Experiment. He's now married and has a family. And
about 2 and a half years ago, I saw him and he said he was cruising through the
Internet the other night and came across something he wasn't even looking
for. I came on this thing and it was by this guy named Dan Hawke. It
was like a chat room or an editorial or something and he said, man, it was about
us! It was about you!
R: That was actually our website. That's the site
where I'm the moderator.
JB: Yeah, and so I wound up going back to his house when
his wife and kids were gone once, and we spent the evening there and we looked
at 3 or 4 things and one thing led to another and I went Holy crap! I had
no idea that I was famous. I had no clue. And because of Dan
Hawke...he was so gracious. I sent him a weirdly-worded e-mail and he said
when he got that e-mail, it was so off the wall, he figured it had to
He responded and then we talked on the phone and he sent me many, many DVDs
of his work and he told me about Sgt. Major. He said there's a guy who
really, really, really wants to meet me and wants to talk to me. So I
called him up and that was 2 years ago and we became quite good friends on the
telephone long distance. And then here, back in October, I went up to his
home up North and we made a movie. Not the way I would have really
wanted to make it, but we ran out of time.
See, things have changed so much. I am totally ignorant of the
marketplace today. Of course, I know that there's a million websites, but
as far as the nuts and bolts with the model...you know, how many hours
does a certain amount of money pay for? And when I was doing a movie,
a sound movie that was an hour long, of course, it had a story, it was
scripted. We followed the script. We had meetings prior to shooting
with all the people involved so everybody knew what was going on. They had
to learn their lines. They had to know what they were going to say.
And it took 2 long days, 8 to 10 hours.
R: So how long did you have to shoot Amber?
JB: About 5 hours.
R: Now, you say it wasn't exactly what you had planned
on. What were you originally planning?
JB: I had written a script. After I had seen a
couple DVDs of her, I realized her capabilities were phenomenal. She's
very limber and a tough lady. I had written a script that would have told
quite a neat little story, but there simply wasn't time. A friend of
Sarge's was there and one evening, we built the set from nothing.
One thing I apologize for and I will again. I don't hear very
well and these new words..."red" is the new code word to stop and I didn't
understand what Amber was saying, and I crossed the
line...unintentionally. I mean, no harm done.
If you notice, one of the things that make my work what I thought it was
supposed to be...you don't allow a kidnapped girl that's going to be butchered
and raped, you don't let her hold on to the ropes that's holding her
up. That kills part of the feel of the thing.
R: Yeah, that totally breaks your fantasy.
JB: Yeah, but you can't do that now. Now they've
gotta be able to hold on, you know? Which, if you had taken the time, I
can rig padding in such a way that the girl doesn't wind up with her thumb being
numb for a week. But you've gotta know what you're doing and it takes a
while to get that done right. Just a lot of little things. But
certainly, Amber was fantastic. Just fantastic.
R: I actually saw the raw footage, which I was very
lucky to have seen that.
JB: How did you like that gigantic dildo?
R: (laughing) Yeah, I wanted ask you, that had to be
faked, right, when they put that right up inside of her?
JB: Did it? No! (laughing)
R: Are you serious? That actually went up inside of
her? That thing was enormous.
R: Well, we actually didn't get to see an insert
JB: No, that's because the hole in the bottom of that
thing had a rope running through. The rope is what kept it up in
there. When that rope was pulled forward, it pulled some of her flesh
right behind her pussy into the hole. Ouch! That hurt!
R: That must have been the bloodcurdling scream that we
heard right before they cut the shot.
JB: It could be. Sarge wanted to drop the whole
thing saying we can't do this. I said, yeah, we can. But it
took about 15 minutes where I could rig the thing where it wouldn't be visible
and the rope wouldn't pull flesh with it. The thing that most people don't
realize is that with a willing female...a young woman...the vaginal canal is
extremely elastic. If they want to take something huge, it will
R: Yeah, I saw a YouTube interview with Amber Rayne and
she was talking about how she could take these enormous objects up her pussy, so
I guess based on your information here, I'm not really surprised. The
reason I thought it was simulated was because we didn't actually get to see it
on camera. So she actually took it, though,
JB: Oh yeah, I just had to keep pushing and
pushing and force it in.
R: That's amazing. Now, one thing I had a question
about...The part of the footage I really liked the best was the first part where
they were hanging her up by her crotch. But I was surprised that in the
subsequent scenes, she was never gagged. Was that conscious choice on your
JB: No, not on my part. See, we didn't have the time
to follow my script. I'll always stick to this forever: You cannot make
any sort of piece of cinema off the cuff. You must have a plan. You
have to know what you're going to do. Part of this is the editor is in
another state. You ship this poor man all this footage with no shooting
script. He has no idea what's supposed to go where.
R: I saw the edited footage of the crotchrope scene and I
thought the editor did a great job.
JB: But it's so much more difficult without a shooting
script. Instead of the old days when we shot on film when we had all that
splicing and all that enormous work, it's so easy today. When he's doing
his video editing, he can isolate each one of those scenes and piece them
together electronically. It's a piece of cake.
And with the new video capabilities...they're new to me...some outstanding
movies could be made. I mean, movies that would just raise a hard-on on a
dead man, make your cock as hard as Chinese algebra. But it's not being
done because the models...and I'm not knocking the girls that do this,
necessarily...but there are so many, and the money is so good, that they don't
expect to really have to work for it. If one model doesn't want to do
something, another one won't either. When I was doing work, I was the only
game in town. There was nobody else doing this. Most of the girls
that worked for me really liked doing it. So it was a whole different
context. The two are not compatible. It's like mixing oil and
R: So in your original script for Blakemore Returns, was
Amber gagged in the subsequent scenes?
JB: Yeah, part of the time. One of the things I
wanted to do, if she was willing to try it...and we would have tried
it off-camera...it's very dangerous, unless you know what you're doing.
You must be very careful about this, but it only takes 1 or 2 seconds to sell
it. A lot of people know today what auto-erotic mutilation is, and
auto-erotic asphyxiation. One of the sad things in this country is that
many, many teenage girls that supposedly commit suicide, weren't committing
suicide at all. They were simply choking themselves to have these
wonderful orgasms and they went too far and wound up strangling
R: Right, that's how the actor David Carradine supposedly
JB: Yeah, could be. I knew him personally. We
were both in the same military post, at the same time in the same office.
When he was discharged, I took his job.
R: So what were you planning to do with Amber as
far as that goes?
JB: What I wanted to do...and it might have worked; we
just didn't do it. Amber wasn't particularly into being choked, but she
did like it, somewhat. The deal was to have her arms and wrists tied
behind her and to have her stand there, spread her legs and arch her
pussy up. I would finger her and the other bad guy would get up behind her
and he gets a hold of the down haul on a hoist. You use a wide strap and
the hook to the hoist gets attached to the exact center of the back of the head,
right above the top of the spine. And you can pick a girl up. She
will be strangling. There's no danger of her breaking her neck, but if she
goes into orgasm, you can't let her thrash around because she might injure her
R: So the reason you didn't shoot that scene was...?
JB: We just didn't get around to it. It would have
taken 7 to 8 hours to have shot the movie the way I had it
scripted. The way this thing started was going to be the girl is trussed
up by herself in a dimly lit environment. Every struggle that she makes
simply hurts her pussy even worse and she can't stop it, although she can get
off on it. Then we lap dissolve back to an office. This guy is on
the phone talking to Jared. Jared is the procurement manager for some
sheik who has purchased this girl. This man and his son have kidnapped her
and they're holding her until the time they're told where to deliver her.
There's been a delay and they're going to have to keep her for a couple of
days. This is what I scripted because of certain things that Amber did not
want to have happen. So I worked with her capabilities and the things she
was willing to do.
So we got away with this in the script in that Jared says to this old man,
"You can do anything you want to her but don't do anything that's going to leave
any marks". So that the sheik doesn't know that you've been playing with
her because it would piss him off.
R: Now, as far as you know, was this footage
JB: No, it didn't get shot. Sarge was going
to shoot it later with him and his friend, filling in for me, and
I guess it never got shot. So what happens in the movie then is
these 2 guys leave the office and fade in on the scene where the girl is and
they walk in and begin. And at the end, she's left all alone and it's time
for her to be delivered. It was a story that made sense. And a lot
of this thing about the strangulation bit was built into the script because she
had been caught and sent to a psychiatrist. She had been caught strangling
herself because it made her cum. And a simple fact of the matter is that
I've had at least 4 different models, and some young ladies that I've played
with privately since, that absolutely cum their asses off after about 40 seconds
of strangulation. You need to let them down so that their toes can touch,
let them breathe, give them a little time to get a good supply of oxygen and
pick 'em up again and they'll cum again.
R: Kind of a dangerous game.
JB: It is. You have to know what you're doing and
it's not a game for someone to play that's fucking crazy. You're doing
this because the girl gets off on it that way better than any other way.
It's not common. I don't recommend that anybody try this with their wife
or girlfriend. They'll wind up either in jail or divorced or both.
R: Now, in the video interview that I saw that you taped
with Sarge, you said you got started in this business by accident. Which
begs the question...how exactly did you get started in this by accident?
JB: Well, when I was getting my degree in cinematography,
I had a student advisor, who was actually younger than I was. When it came
time for me to do my graduate portfolio, he suggested I simply exploit one
subject, just do one thing and do it very well, and he suggested detective novel
covers. And as a student in 1970, in the university where I was attending,
the photography department had no rules against nudity. And I didn't have
a whole lot of problem finding some girls that were willing to do
this. And each photo that I made was bondage. Big time. I
built little scenes, what we call in photography a vignette, and I had the
university studio at my disposal. I made some wonderful 35mm slides.
I built a little scene on a huge seamless paper background. And then using
a thing called a photo compositor, my finished products were actual size of what
would be a fictitious detective novel book cover.
And I found out from my advisor about a year after I was gone from school
that the head of the department is the one who recommended the bondage
because the head of the department liked bondage. And he
didn't know that I knew a hell of a lot about it. Then subsequently I sold
some of those pictures and I met the advisor in a bar again around Christmas and
he gave me the address of House of Milan Incorporated in California. I
sent some slides there and I got a phone call from Barbara and I was in
R: So what was Barbara Behr like to work with?
JB: Oh, very good. She let me do whatever
it was I wanted to do within the confines of whichever way her advisors and she
thought the legal wind might be blowing, which way it might shift.
There were periods of time for months that I had to keep the girls' panties
on. Then there were periods of time, when okay, you can take their panties
off now. Of course, I was restricted so heavily. You couldn't show
anything being inserted. No sex. Virtually 90% of what's done today,
I couldn't do.
R: Now did Barbara Behr ever actually appear in any of the
House of Milan films?
JB: Oh, no. She was there on a couple of the big
sync sound movies, she was there shooting stills. Bishop was there once
with a secondary, handheld camera. No, she had no involvement
whatsoever. She was a good businessperson. And she treated me...she
was fair. For what I thought at the time, she was fair.
R: Now, you mentioned Bishop, are you talking about the
JB: Yeah. See, people don't realize how much things
change. This was years ago. There was no treatment for pancreatic
cancer. Nothing. Bishop had pancreatic cancer. There's no
surviving it. It's a long, slow, miserable, agonizing death. He
wasn't going to go there. He wasn't going to do it. So...he killed
R: I wasn't aware he had killed himself.
JB: Yeah, but he didn't have a helluva lot of
choice. What are you gonna do? Live like an animal for 2 or 3 years
before finally die in agony? That's stupid.
R: So what was his role with the company?
JB: I don't know. He did fantastic artwork.
I was only in the offices in California a few times. He was just an
employee that did artwork and shot stills, typing...I know they made some movies
of their own. But after I got started making the silent movies, a lot of
them just quit. They couldn't come close to doing what I was doing.
R: Now, you obviously had an interest in bondage before
you actually got hired...
JB: Let me cut to the chase. You've got to remember
that I hit puberty in the early 50s. There was no plastic, there no
cell phones, there were no computers, there wasn't even television. And so
the only erotica available from the 20s on until the late 60s was Esquire
magazine. But the thing that was available in every feed store, every
garage, every auto mechanic's place, hardware stores, were these beautiful,
huge, sometimes 3-foot tall calendars with artwork. The pin-up girl.
This was the era of the pin-up model. These things were so sexy, but
that's the only thing there was...with the exception of...at that time, in the
late 40s, early 50s...the men's magazines. Now, this was immediately after
World War II. Every cover, and there's a hundred different titles, but
they're all Men. Man's World. Men In Action. Action.
True...and every damn one of them had an illustration, some of them quite good,
of some beautiful girl being tortured by Japs or Nazis.
R: Yes, I'm a big fan of the men's magazines covers.
In fact, I run a picture on the board every day, and it seems like we always get
the most comments whenever I run one of those old-fashioned men's magazine
artworks. People love them.
JB: Would you be interested in having artwork...a copy of
the original magazine and then, what I was going to call these things, "The
Men's Magazines The Way You Wished They Were".
R: You talking about with nudity?
JB: That would be that they're now nude. And the
things that were being implied are now being done. I'm a good
R: Well, you know, I've actually seen some not-very-good
recreations where manipulators will take the original covers and they'll
digitally remove the clothing. Some of them are pretty good but most
aren't that good.
JB: Well, when I send you some of the crap that I've
done just for shits and giggles, just for fun, you'll have a heart attack.
R: I dunno, I've seen a lot!
JB: Well, you haven't seen anything this good.
Because I use the original style and technique of the original artists. It
looks like the real thing.
R: Sarge says you're quite an artist, so I'd be
interested in seeing that. Maybe we can run them for the board.
JB: I'm close to being as good at drawing women as
Vargas. When I was a kid, about 7 or 8 years old, I would see these pin-up
calendars. They made my cock hard. So I started drawing these
things. Secretly, of course. I'd have been beat to death if my dad
had found out. And I started teaching myself how to change the
position. And so I was doing these girls in scenes of torture. I
was a damn fine artist by the time I was 8 or 9 years old. So I started
drawing these things as a kid...bondage. And it just went from
there. It just was a natural thing.
R: What was the story with the whole Blakemore/Whitman
Well, I don't mean to be arrogant or flippant,
but that was just bullshit. We had finished the first sync-sound
movie, um...um...what was it, Rude Revenge?
JB: Right, Bittersweet Revenge. And we had the
cameras packed up, all the crew had left, it was time to go, Barbara needed to
get on the train, and she said, "Wait, I've got to have a name. What's
your name?" I just said "Jason Whitman". I just pulled it out of
thin air. And then some time went by, and I went with "Jeremy
Whitmore". Just because she needed a name. I didn't give a shit one
way or another. I could care less. And I have no idea where the
"John Blakemore" came from. Somebody gave me that name in California and
R: So do you have a preference as to what you
want to be known as now?
JB: Well, I
guess I'll stick with John Blakemore. It sounds good to me. It's an
easy name. Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for
So was there an actual photo editor working for HOM named John Blakemore?
I think so.
Was that his real name?
I don't know. Sarge told me that somebody in California...I'm still vague on where the Blakemore came from, but that moniker got laid on it and I guess it stuck.
I know people went by aliases, so that may not have been the actual guy's name.
Yeah, I don't know. I think there might have been somebody with that name and it got stuck on my stuff somehow or the other.
But you don't have a problem with that?
No, I don't care. I was never doing anything for notoriety anyway. I didn't want to be known. Absolutely not, Jesus. I still don't.
That's why you wore the mask this most recent time, right?
R: When you began with HOM, did you get
started with just photo shoots, or was it actual video loops at the
JB: No, I started with shooting stills.
And after the first couple of months, Barbara started a new magazine called
"Bondage Classics" that didn't have anything in it but my work.
R: Right, I have a few of those magazines at home.
JB: I'd love to have copies of them. Because I have
nothing. Anyway, somewhere within the first year or year and a half, she
asked me if I could do movies. Duh! Hey Barb, I have a degree in
cinema. Yeah, I can make movies. And so I started making these
silent movies. They were 16mm. I did the editing. She wanted
them to be 15 to 20 minutes long. They were called loops and they went
into machines that were coin-fed. I didn't even know what a loop was until
she explained it to me. And then, several more years went by and when we
made Bittersweet Revenge, that was the first attempt at directing a full-length,
sync sound movie. And that was shot with a CP-16 with Mitchell mags and
it's a lot of work.
R: The CP-16, that's a camera?
JB: Yes sir. That's a 16mm movie camera. That
was the state of the art camera at the time. The CP-16 was used by every
news department in the country.
R: How how many people generally would work on
creating your films?
JB: I did all the writing. I wrote the thing
myself. I directed it. I acted in it. I had a person to run
the boom for the microphone, because you had a separate sound system.
That's why you used the clapstick so the editor can synchronize the sound with
his editing. However many girls were in it, and however many guys, the sound person, me, and that's about it.
R: Let me ask you, how did you procure the models, that
is, how did you talk them into doing the work to begin
JB: Well, my very first model was a circuit dancer
at a go-go place. There was no topless. In fact, nowhere in the
country was there topless. But this girl was built like a brick outhouse
and I just walked up to her and told her who I was and what I did and that I
needed a model. I said it would pay 100 bucks for one little film, take
about 2 hours, and she said sure.
So you told her up front exactly what was involved and
that she would be tied up?
course. You can't talk a girl into doing this. She either wants to
or she doesn't want to. If she wants to, she will. Just be up
front. Just be honest and make no bones about it. She said, "What's
involved?" And I said you being tied up in 4 different positions, maybe 5.
Some of them will be pretty strenuous. I may put a rope between your legs
and pull it up so you're on your tiptoes because your pussy is being cut in
half. And she said, "Oh God, that sounds awful. I love it!"
R: Now, did you make that same offer to other women
and did they turn you down?
JB: I was turned
down maybe...oh, 20% of the time. But I had school teachers, office
workers, wives, dancers...it didn't matter where they came from. What
mattered was what they looked like and what they were wearing that told me they
were safe to approach. If they were wearing an ankle bracelet on both
ankles and had spiked heels and dangly earrings and looked like a million bucks,
that's a potential model. Absolutely. If they're not gorgeous, don't
bother. Just pick the prettiest ones you can find, that are the
sexiest. They're sexy for a reason. They are aware of their
sexuality. They like it. They display it. They want to be
seen. They want to be looked at. Basically, they want to know in
their own minds that they're making men's cocks get hard. And so that was
one of my lines. "You want to have maybe 50 thousand guys jacking off, looking
at pictures of you?"
R: Where exactly were you approaching these women?
JB: Well, where they worked, in a bar, when they got off
work, say, waiting tables. I mean, anywhere.
R: That just strikes me as odd that you would just go up
to somebody's workplace when they're sitting at their desk and make an offer
JB: Well, you've got to keep in mind what she looks like
when she's sitting there behind her desk in the Mayor's office as the
senior receptionist and she's sitting there with her skirt up to her ass, with
her toes pointed, kicking one foot, showing all the cleavage the law will allow.
I'm not running any risk.
If it's not too personal of a question...and you don't
have to answer this, but 3 different people have asked about this...did you
actually get to "play" with some of the actresses
Over the years that I did that work, I
had probably 4 girls that were very dear friends. One would quite often
call and say she wanted to have lunch with me. We would meet at the studio
and I would do things to her that I couldn't possibly do on film.
R: Such as...?
JB: Such as whip her pussy...oh, I'm not even gonna go
there. There's still the law. And most of what I did would have been
illegal and is probably still illegal. But it was consensual. They
got off on it.
R: But in a consensual relationship, that's not illegal,
JB: Well, it doesn't matter. For all you guys and
girls out there, it does not matter what is legal and what is not legal.
What matters is that the police will use any means, illegal included, to destroy
your life. They will lose in court. They will not be successful in
prosecuting you but they will have completely succeeded in destroying your
life. It will take all the money you can get. You may lose your
house, your car, your family. Although you're innocent, that doesn't make
any difference. Make no mistake. This is not the land of the
free. This is the land of the court. And the courts are not fair and
they are not honest. Now, the court will maybe throw a thing out, but
the police have had the time and the media to wreck your life before that ever
R: Are we talking first-hand experiences
R: Okay, I won't go into that.
JB: No, don't want to.
R: Right, I understand.
JB: And another thing you asked about, I'll tell
you. See, I had learned some things over the years. Way back in the
60s, there were a bunch of us guys in a group therapy session. We
didn't call it that then, but that's what it was. There was a man
there who was an Osage Indian. And he had a beautiful wife.
Anyway, finally, he spoke. And the rest of us were like "What?
The Chief can talk!" And he says, "I'm so sick and tired of you white guys
thinking your dick means something to women. They don't give a damn about
your cock. Look at this." And he stuck his tongue out and ran it up
the bridge of his nose, and I am not exaggerating, he actually wiggled the top
of his tongue between his eyebrows. And that's all he did.
Then, years later, I was running camera at a TV station where were taping a
show for broadcast later. The host of a talk show was interviewing a
famous pimp. And he asked the pimp, "How do you control a stable of 25
women without threats of violence or the use of drugs?" And the man
immediately responded, "One must become a master at the art of
cunnilingus". Well, the owner of the TV station made him bleep the word
"cunnilingus" because this was in the 70s. Can't say the word
"cunnilingus". But it hit me like a diamond bullet. Oh! What
this guy had told me years ago now has been collaborated.
And so...I think it was my second or third model, I don't even know who it
was, but I had ended the shoot and finished the set of stills, and I purposely
had her tied in a position where her pelvis was arched up. Her pussy was
right there available. She's still tied up and gagged. And when I
shot the last shot, I just turned off the lights and simply went down and
started eating her pussy. And she didn't protest. And that led to my
models bringing other girls. I didn't even have to look for them.
They came to me. Because I had established a reputation of being the
best pussy eater they had ever seen. And that is not a joke.
So all those guys out there: you will get women to do a helluva lot more if
you will take what seems to be an absolutely excruciatingly long period of time
of very gentle teasing and touching, you can get her to a point that when
you do touch her pussy, she just explodes. Because she's now anticipating
it so much. Slow down, guys. Learn to eat pussy. And it
doesn't have to be hard or rough. Very, very light, very
gentle. Women are not like us, in case you haven't figured that out.
R: Right, they're a lot softer and bumpier.
JB: But that was a tremendous help because I established a
rapport. I had a personal relationship with each girl that ever worked for
me. I knew them, they knew me, they knew where I lived, they met my
wife. You know, you don't go to the agency and have one sent over.
That don't work. You can't make good movies that way. The girl has
to know you, she has to trust you. She has to understand what it is you're
trying to do.
R: So basically, that first model had the pleasurable
experience with you. She told her friends and that's how you got your
JB: She told another friend who told a friend of hers and
that girl happened to be a girl I knew as Dixie. I can't tell you what her
stage name was. Was it Lana?
R: I know who you're talking about. I'm not real
good at remembering the names, either, though. But generally, it's been my
experience that attractive women usually have attractive friends
JB: Absolutely. You know, you can't compare apples
and giraffes. The way things were when I was working is apples and the way
things are today is giraffes. I don't know that the kind of movies that I
made back then could be made today. Well, of course, they could,
but it would have to be a willing model that was willing to put the time in
for her payment of $1000 or more. For a 2-day shoot on a sync sound movie,
the girls got $250. That was good money then. I don't know what good
money is today. I have no yardstick to compare.
I know that there are young women out there who really like doing this that
don't get to do it. I've had models that had moved away from here, that
came back for a long weekend...with the fiance. I had to show him how to
treat her, how to whip her. How to tie her up, the things she liked having
done to her. Because he didn't have a clue! And she was going
nuts. She loved the guy but she wasn't going to marry him unless
he found out how to whip her pussy right.
R: Let me ask you, can you tell me specifically about one
of your most famous models, Rene Baker? Can you tell me about you came to
work with her?
JB: She was a 4th degree black
belt. She was arrogant. She was stuck up. She also had one of
the tightest pussies I ever had. I enjoyed screwing her brains out.
She was difficult to work with when other girls were involved because she always
wanted to put 'em down. She liked to be superior. She was a good
model, but she was kind of a bitch. I didn't particularly like her
personally. I liked working with her but I didn't like her as a
R: Do you know what became of her?
JB: No, I don't.
R: How about one of my favorite models, Anne Bruno?
You know who I'm talking about?
JB: Oh, I know who you're talking about. Her
nickname was Kat. I worked on her for about 2 years, trying to get
her to model for me. There is one loop of her with her breasts bound with
wire. I remember that shoot so distinctly. George was running camera
and Kat would not shut up. I mean she just blabbermouth, bla, bla,
bla. Finally, in the movie I gagged her and George whispered to me and
said, "Thank God! You should have gagged that bitch an hour ago!"
The still photography that I did of her, that I've seen some of, she was
fat. When I did the one movie of her, she had a pretty good body, but
man, she had a beautiful pair of breasts. And a beautiful mouth.
She was in Punished 2, right? The one where you
tied up her tits?
Yeah, and she looked pretty fat in
that one, because she's tied to a section of scaffolding.
But Kat's thing wasn't movies or stills. Once she broke the ice, she
loved to drive around in my Maverick, which was pretty low, and pull up beside
pickup trucks and pull her dress up and let 'em see her pussy. Show 'em
her boobs. You know, prick tease! And that got her cranked.
That's what turned her on, was teasing. That's not all that
R: Do you know what became of Anne
JB: Nope, I have no idea.
R: How about Sharon Montgomery? She's another
JB: I have no idea who that is.
R: You don't know who Sharon Montgomery is?
JB: No, I don't know these girls' stage names hardly at
all. The best model I ever had, I don't know her stage name was but I
loved her to death. And we're still good friends.
R: Sharon Montgomery was the one who starred in Curiosity
Excited the Kat. Do you know who I'm talking about?
JB: Yeah, she lives about 15 miles from me now. And
she still looks as she did. She has horses. She's a professional
rigger. She works high, setting up things for big concerts. And I
see her every once in a while. We've been great friends for years.
R: What do you remember about that film?
JB: See, during that period of time, I rented space in a
huge...more than a city block...square building. Of course, I was making
movies that had a story. So I built all kinds of sets. I shot, I
don't know how many movies in the exact same space. But I moved shit
around. I collected old tires and bells and junk, you know, stuff to build
a set, to make a background. In Curiosity Excited the Kat, see, I wanted
to call it Curiosity Killed the Kat. Uh uh, can't use the word
"killed". So it got mutated into Curiosity Excited the Kat, which just
blew the whole damn thing, in my opinion.
R: Let me ask you about the Erotic Perversion series,
because that's my favorite footage of anything that you ever shot.
JB: Mine, too. At the time, the laws in the United
States prohibited any form of penetration, or sex with bondage, or actual
torture and so I made these films expressly for the European market, to be taken
out of the country. They were not even edited here. I had to hand
deliver the raw footage. It was never out of my possession. I put it
in Barbara's hands; she in turn put it in the hands of someone from
Europe. And even then, it was probably risky, although the film had not
yet even been developed. It was raw footage that had not yet been
developed. And it went out of the country and it did not come back.
I was rather shocked to find out a couple years ago that some of this stuff is
R: It is available if you know where to look, but usually
the prints are not very good. When I first saw the footage, I was blown
away. It was silent, but that was and is some of the harshest stuff I had
JB: Well, that's when I was first able to do some of the
things that I wanted to do.
R: Specifically, what was not allowed at the
JB: No blow jobs. I guess you could,
but not in America. You couldn't have any kind of sex. No
sexual intercourse of any kind. No fellatio. No cunnilingus, you
couldn't eat pussy. You'd couldn't show a pussy spread
open...more than half the time, I had to keep their panties on with
crotchropes. It was so restrictive. Of course, this goes without
saying; it's common sense: no guns, no threat of death, don't even imply
maiming. And that should still go today. That's over the line.
R: Even in a fantasy film?
JB: Well, it depends on if the market wants it,
but whoever does it better be damn careful. They better not make it in
R: Obviously. How did you find the girl
from the Erotic Perversion shorts who took a lot of the needles in her
JB: Oh, they were the same girls. Rene Baker
was one of them.
R: Rene Baker was in the Erotic Perversions?
R: Do you remember which particular one?
JB: No, I don't. She was in several. I needled
her pussy and her breasts more than once.
R: One of the most notorious things I ever saw in the
Erotic Perversion loops was when you actually hung a girl up with a meathook
through her pussy. Now, was that Rene Baker?
JB: No, that was a married lady. Her husband was in
the Navy. She was a waitress at a real nice restaurant. I saw her
one night and her face and her legs...I just went wow! And I waited until
she got off work and I stopped her in the friggin' parking lot. I talked to
her and she said okay. That was a hay hook, by the way, not a
meathook. It's used for moving bales of hay. I had that hay hook
when I was kid.
At first she did it just for the money, but within a couple of times after
the shooting was done, we got to having wild sex with her tied up. I
scratched an itch that she had always had. She had fantasies as a
pubescent girl of bondage and torture and she liked it. And the
hook...it's there. You see it going in and it was there.
R: We also saw some blood dripping at her feet.
JB: Yeah, it made her pussy bleed. And I also ran
fishhooks through her nipples. Of course, to get 'em out, you've got to
take a set of dikes and cut the barb off to pull 'em out. In personal
play and stuff, I fishhooked a lot of girls' nipples.
R: Were the women aware beforehand that you were going to
be doing this to them?
JB: Sure, because I was working
from a script. I was working from a written shooting script that has shot
by shot. Follow the script. You make a shot, you scratch it
off. You don't have to shoot it in sequence, but it makes editing a lot
R: Now, I'm sure there were many occasions where you would
show somebody your script and they would say "Well, this is okay, but I don't
know, needles through the...?"
JB: No, that didn't happen. I asked what were the
rules. And she said for Europe, there aren't any. No threat of
death. No severe cutting. No shooting, no guns, but just about
whatever your sick mind can come up with is okay. So I never did anything
where she said "well, you can't do that".
R: Still, you took an actual hay hook and stuck it in a
woman's pussy and hung her up in the air from it. Weren't you afraid of
possibly seriously hurting her?
JB: No, because the weight on that hook was on her pubic
arch. The tip wasn't putting pressure in her vaginal canal. Of
course, the thing was in her. It did make her bleed a little bit.
Unfortunately, you couldn't tell with her when she was cumming and when she
wasn't. I think she had an orgasm 3 times in that movie, and it just
pissed me off because I couldn't tell she was getting off until was over.
And then she told me and I went what? Oh god! No, please!
R: That's pretty wild.
JB: Barbara cautioned me about that. There are a lot
of women that you don't want as models. They get off on it, but it's such
a personal thing that it doesn't translate to film. It's a waste.
R: Personally, that's one thing I hate in today's
movies. They're obviously very consensual and it seems like the whole
purpose is to make the woman cum.
JB: From what Sarge has told me, this is because...not the
government...but the credit card companies...
R: ...of which, incidentally, the government is
JB: Yeah, but this is to keep the credit card
companies happy. So basically...they can do the damned interview
beforehand, and do it afterwards, and the person that's buying the thing can
just ignore it. Fine, do the interview, but then between the beginning
interview and the ending interview, make a goddamned movie that men want to
see. And that means they want to see kidnapping, torture and rape.
That's what they want to see. They don't wanna see the girl cumming.
But get her to the point that she's screaming and begging to be allowed to
cum and don't let her! The whole point of this sort of fantasy is to
punish these prick-teasing, good-looking honeys, not to let them have a good
R: That's just it. And there's this one particular
company that does incredible bondage, but honestly, most of their stuff is
unwatchable because it seems like every scene concludes with a guy taking a
vibrator to a woman's pussy and letting her cum. And I'm thinking, what's
JB: Well, I used a vibrator, but I used it in
a way that it's strapped and tied between her legs and she's tied up and she
cums so much that she don't want to cum anymore but she can't stop. It
becomes a torture. It's prolonged. She can't get away from it.
And they wind up just going crazy, struggling like mad because
exhaustion sets in. If you force a woman to cum enough times, she'll
just lose it.
R: Getting back to the Erotic Perversions loops, you're
saying there was no simulated blood? All the blood that we saw was
real? It wasn't enhanced at all?
JB: Sometimes it
was not real. But the penetration with the spiked dildo...that was
real. Hooks through their nipples was real.
R: Wait a minute. The penetration with the spiked
dildo was real?
R: Was it a real spiked dildo or were the spikes
JB: No, it wasn't rubber. It was an inch and half
dowel that had small nails drilled into it that had been cut off and filed down
to where they weren't super sharp. They still broke flesh inside her
pussy. Hell, when I did that movie with that girl, she had used that
thing. She took it home with her before we ever made that movie.
R: You're kidding. So she was definitely into it
JB: Oh, she loved having the inside of her pussy
cut. She wanted me to take a knife to her nipples and makes slices in them
that would bleed. So she could deal with blood running down her
breasts. I know another lady that absolutely gets off on the feel and the
sight of blood running from her nipples.
See, here's another thing that nobody today knows about. You have to
work with that model's brain. You have to get in her head. One of
the easiest things that makes life wonderful for her is to have a couple of
full-length mirrors so they can see themselves. So they can watch that
"other girl" and know which way to twist and how to pose. I tried at all
times, no matter how the girl was tied up, I wanted her to look
sexy, I wanted her to be graceful. You will not see a movie that I
ever made where a girl's got her foot at a 90 degree angle. That is just
abhorrent. Standing flat-footed...my god. I would smack you upside
the head for doing that. Who wants to see a naked woman standing
flat-footed? That's just plain anti-erotic. Put her on her
toes. If she doesn't have on spiked heels, then keep her up on her
R: Are you saying you have some sort of a shoe
fetish? Or a foot fetish?
R: You just think women look sexier that
JB: I don't think, I know. Follow the money.
The big corporations that spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on
erotica like Playboy, Penthouse, Score...hell, the ballet, the Rockettes, you
name it. Everybody in the world except the porno makers know that women
are sexy when they're on their toes. That's why high heels were invented
during the Menoa period, before the Greeks, for Christ's sake. Putting
women up on their tiptoes has been a constant for 2000 years. It isn't
going to go away. Why is the ballerina taught to point her toes?
What's the point of a ballerina dancing on the tip of her toes? It's to
accentuate every curve of her body. Flat-footed doesn't do squat.
R: I guess that makes sense. I never really thought
about it. One more question about the Erotic Perversion videos...you had a
segment in there that I figured had to be simulated where you actually took a
blow torch and heated up a nail and pressed it into a girl's skin.
JB: See, I was being careful. Barbara told me
that certain things like that..you know, you don't want the President to know
too much, so that he has plausible deniability. With that particular
model...she was the same model that took the spiked dildo...hell yes, I put
half a dozen good burns on her breasts. But I shot it in a way that
it could be edited to where there was a question as to whether it actually
happened or not. Plausible deniability. It's called Cover Your
R: Now, somebody was behind the camera and you
were the one on camera doing all these things, in other words, right?
R: Was there anyone else, obviously not in this particular
series, but with HOM that had the same rule that you had?
JB: No, it was just me. My cameraman acted in a
couple of movies, the two Tourist Trap movies. Barbara's husband was in
one of the Tourist Trap movies. He was the fat guy at the beginning that's
puking inside a chain link fence. And I've never seen that movie. I
would love to have a copy of both of the Tourist Traps.
R: You've never seen Tourist Trap
JB: I've never seen either one of them.
R: That's wild. A lot of people consider that your
JB: Well, I would think so.
R: One of the best filmmakers working today named Rick
Masters, his company is ZFX, made a whole series of films called "South of the
Border" that were clearly based on Tourist Trap. He posted to the forum and
said that Tourist Trap was a huge influence for him. He's a big
fan of your work.
JB: I haven't seen those, either. I'm going to go
out to the Internet for this group and beg. I have done my little
dance, I'm playing the violin in the subway, my hat is laying on the
floor. Please put DVDs in it. Because I can't get 'em. I can't
go online for reasons that we won't even go into. I'm in a
wasteland. I'm in a desert. I'm totally at the mercy of people who
will give me DVDs.
R: A few people have asked about this. What was your
best experience on the set?
JB: I wouldn't say I ever had a best experience on the
set. It was work. It's just work. There was no turn on.
Here's a good example. There was a fellow who was one of the
newsmen when I was art director at this TV station. He left this part
of the country and moved to another state. But he loved this stuff.
He was fascinated by it. And he kept bugging me and bugging me. He
wanted to see one of these movies being made. So he drove about 800
miles. He got there and someone let him in the door. I didn't even
realized he had arrived.
At the time, we were making The Experiment and Dixie was hanging
spreadeagled, not holding onto anything, and she was in the midst of an
orgasm. And we ran out of film and I called cut. And she was hanging
there, thrashing, cumming her ass off, and at the word "cut", that head snaps up
and she looks at him and says, "George! God damn it! Don't you touch
my ham sandwich!" (laughing) It just shattered him.
R: That's pretty wild.
JB: Well, she was a precious one. Because we were
having a really hard time with that Experiment at a different location. It
was late in the day, everybody was tired, people were getting pissed off
and the scene called for her to be eating Rene Baker's pussy. On the
set, it was about to fall apart. I was about to lose my whole crew.
And she walks in and puts her hands on her hips and says, "Let me tell
you. I don't eat pussy, I get drunk and feed it to my friends!" She
saved the day.
R: That's too funny.
JB: During this stuff, it was not a turn on. I don't
think I ever had a hard-on in my entire life working on a movie because
you're WORKING. You have to have your wits about you. You're
thinking of the next shot. There are a million things you have to have in
your head to make a movie. It's very attention-intensive work. You
don't have time to relax. That's why, with some of my girls, after we had
finished a shoot, we would meet for a few hours after everyone was gone and get
it out of our system. We would play for 3 or 4 hours and do whatever we
wanted to do, but that was private, you know?
And another thing, and I talked to Sarge about this, too. It's
strange. It's almost impossible for me to get any kind of arousal looking
at my own work.
R: Because you're so close to it?
JB: Because I did it. I made it. I know
what's real and what ain't. I know about "God damn it. Don't you
touch my ham sandwich". That's not in the movie, you know? I know
about all those things. I know about who couldn't stop sneezing. Who
got the hiccups. Getting the hiccups will shoot a movie in the ass,
man. These are real things, real people. Too cold, too hot, hungry,
thirsty. Girls sweat, you've gotta keep them hydrated. There's all
kinds of things. Making a movie is a job. Period. It is not a
turn on. We're making the movie to turn on other people.
R: And what's sad is the fact that you've never even seen
some of your own sound-sync movies at all.
JB: Hey, it's been so long, maybe my cock will get hard if
I see Tourist Trap. I'll let you know.
R: Okay, fair enough. What was the worst experience
you ever had on the set?
JB: With Rene Baker, making one
of the Tourist Traps. She insulted one of the other girls in her
face. The other girl cried. She was such a rude bitch and just
insulted this girl and I took her to the side and said, "God damn it. You
pull that shit one more time and I don't give a damn about this movie.
Your ass is outta here." There is no call for that. She was very
difficult, like I told you. When there were other girls involved, she was
a real bitch. I enjoyed whipping that woman. Because she fuckin' had
R: Now, I think the bug scene in The Escape is one of your
finest moments. You remember the movie where they had the two
escaped female criminals? There's a scene toward the end where one of the
criminals is strapped down on the ground and the one lady takes a jarful of
JB: I've never seen that movie! That was my favorite
model...the victim. I've never seen that movie. I'd love to, because
I absolutely adored her to death. She was just...oh god, she was
exquisite. That incredible little body of hers...No, I've never seen that
movie. That was shot up in the woods about 15 miles from here up in
the mountains at an old abandoned house.
R: Now, she was the one who was tied down and getting the
spiders and crickets poured on her, right?
Right, that was her, my favorite model. [Editor's note: I'm pretty sure the model he is talking about is Karen Arthur, who played the main victim in The Escape.
R: So you've never seen the movie...period? It's a
good one. It's a very good one.
JB: I've never seen it. I would love to.
That's one of the movies that I really wanted to see. Because I think
that's the only sync-sound movie that she's in. And I tell ya, I love that
R: And she was also hanging upside-down toward the end
when you were screwing...was it Rene Baker?
JB: I don't
know. We're talking about how many years ago? And how many movies
I've made and I'm supposed to remember all this stuff? It's been so
long. And at the time...hey, out of sight, out of mind. When I
got one done, it's gone. I didn't think about it. I'm now working
on what are we gonna do next.
R: Are there any particular scenes that you
shot, where you actually did get to see the finished product,
that you were particularly proud of the job you did?
Oh lord, I can't tell you. There were so many that I thought were hot as
hell. That's like asking you which kitten you love the most.
R: Right, I guess that makes sense. What states were
most of your films shot in?
JB: We ain't gonna go there. We're not
going there. Uh uh.
R: Okay, not a problem. When you shot the original
16-mm loops, how much time was spent on pre-production, as far as scripting,
scheduling the models, scheduling locations and building
JB: Well, I shot all over the place. Just
targets of opportunity. Sometimes out in the woods, sometimes old
abandoned buildings, wherever I could find. And I will admit, if I was
doing it today, I wouldn't begin to do some of the things I did because I was
taking a risk of being discovered.
R: You're talking about shooting outdoors?
JB: Yeah, you never know who's coming to come wandering
through the woods or in some old building.
R: Did that ever happen? Were you ever
JB: It happened one time, yes, and it caused
quite a problem. It was resolved but that got me an IRS audit.
That's our government, boys and girls. I was doing nothing wrong, nothing
illegal but it pissed off some people and so the Internal Revenue Service was
sicced on me and got their pound of flesh.
R: Now, was there someone directing the models during the
shoots or was that always just you?
JB: Just me. I
was God. There was nobody calling the shots but me.
R: So it was you performing, it was you directing, and I'm
assuming you had a cameraman. So was it you, the cameraman and the model
and that was it?
JB: Yeah. Now, if it was a sound movie, there had to
be somebody running sound. And usually, when it was a sound movie,
Barbara was usually there to shoot stills. Because you have to have stills
for the box covers, you know?
R: So in a typical 16-mm shoot, how many hours would it
take typically to shoot one loop?
JB: Well, I would
shoot enough to make at least 4 or 5 loops at a time and I'd be done in 3
hours. I did almost all the editing in the camera. I was using a
16-mm Bolex with a 3-lens turret. It was hand-cranked; you wind up the
spring and it gives you about 30 seconds of film time. And then you've got
to stop and wind the spring up again. World War II was shot with a
Bolex. It is a wonderful German camera.
R: In a 15-minute edited film loop, how much footage did
you end up using? Was there a lot that ended up on the cutting room
JB: Shooting loops? None. Not hardly any,
because I knew what I was going to do. I was editing in the camera.
I built my movie in the camera.
R: When you were actually doing the production, did the
actresses have safe words to get out of something if it hurt too much?
JB: No. Nobody had heard of such. Well,
yeah, there was, but we didn't call it a safe word. If something was
really wrong, the girl yells "Cut". Or even if she's gagged, she yells
(simulating gagged sound) ""Cwut, cwut, cwut".
R: Did that happen a lot?
very rarely. If you're careful and get your rigging done right, the girls
are gonna be okay. She may be in pain, but it's not damaging.
R: Another question is what ever happened to all the film
that was shot from those movies? As some of the scenes in Tourist Trap are
tantalizingly brief, I was wondering if longer scenes might be rotting away in
some rusty file cabinet.
JB: I haven't actually seen that movie, but no, I don't
think so. I don't know, but I doubt it. I seem to recollect that
some were brief, maybe because of what was being done, that was as long as
she could stand it. Or maybe it was filler. One of the biggest
problems you have in making a movie is...what do you cut to next?
You know, any movie-maker in his right mind will shoot pictures of the
fuckin' clock, of a mouse running across the floor, of ANYTHING to give yourself a way
out of a scene to segue to something else.
R: Right, one of our readers was reviewing one of the
Bondage Classics titles and he made some humorous comments about how you kept
repeatedly cutting away to a shot of a record playing on a turntable.
JB: You wind up getting yourself into problems and
sometimes when it's all done and it's time to go edit a week later, you find I
don't have anywhere to go here. I don't have the cutaway that I
need. And so you've just gotta use what you've got. And from a
cinematic point of view, it sucks.
R: Someone else mentioned that they are a fan of the old
Bondage Classics and the Punished series and also one called "Helpless"
that he only recently found in downloadable form. His question was,
were there still photos taken during the Punished and Helpless shoots? There are
many great scenes among those that he wanted to see good quality
JB: I laid the movie camera down and I shot stills as I
Oh, you shot all the stills
Yeah, there was no one there but me and
her. If she got turned on, we'd have to stop and fuck, you know?
R: Did that happen a lot?
JB: Yeah. When I shot loops and stills, it was
usually just me and the girl. With a new model, I always worked with her
alone the first time for sure, and usually the first 3 or 4 times. See,
rule number one with a new model, right off the bat, shoot a set of
stills. And in the second tie, make sure you've got a rope between her
legs. When you untie her, feel that rope. If it ain't wet, you ain't
got a model. She will not work out, period. Don't even waste your
time. I don't care how gorgeous she is. If the rope is
wet, you've got a model. My goal was, if she had a wet pussy, I was
gonna eat it when I got done with the shoot. And then after maybe the
third time, I was gonna fuck her.
R: How about earlier when you said you didn't get aroused
JB: Let me differentiate between making movies and
loops. Even though a loop was a movie, it's silent. A movie has
full sound. And with the sound movies, there had to be a crew. There
had to be several people there. And in those situations, I had to be the
director, the manager, the prop master, the script girl...I had to wear all the
hats. That pretty much takes care of any sexual arousal. In those
situations, I'm making money. And if I don't get it done right, I'm gonna
lose money. And I don't know about everybody else, but when it comes down
to making or losing money, sex is going to take a back seat.
But after those things were over, there were times that if I had Dottie and
Cynthia both in a movie, I had to decide which one I was going to make
arrangements with to go back in the studio with after everybody was gone.
Usually, it was Cynthia.
R: Which one was Cynthia?
R: And Dottie was who?
was Georgia van Helsing. I had all I wanted from Dottie during the
week. Evenings, weekends, you name it, it didn't matter. I'd call
Dottie up, or she's call me and we'd meet for "lunch", even it was 4:00 in the
afternoon. After we got off work, we'd meet over in the studio for an
hour, hour and a half, and I'd just tear her up.
R: I know you don't have a lot of your own movies
yourself, in fact, Dan Hawke had to send you a lot of your own movies. Is
there anything you're holding onto that hasn't been seen by the
R: Because didn't Sarge say that you had given him stills
from something that had never been released?
JB: No, I sent him some pictures of personal, private
stuff but it was never for the market.
R: We also heard from someone named Jonathan Goble, who
apparently was an editor for HOM in the late 80's after you had left. He
said that you submitted a home video tape that he had to reject. He said
he couldn't even begin to get it past the lawyers since it included sex,
bondage, and penetration with objects. Also HOM's owner, Mike, said he didn't want
anything to do with it.
JB: Hey, that's news to me. I don't remember ever
making a movie that wasn't used. I think he must be confused about who
R: Well, he said this actually came from you and it was
after you left HOM.
JB: Well, when I left HOM, I was done. I didn't do
anything else. After the middle of August in '87, I never did another damn
Not even home footage?
Well, I shot some stuff for myself but that wasn't for publication. I
didn't give it to anybody or send it to anybody.
R: So there was no such video from you, in other
JB: No. Absolutely, positively not.
R: Okay. Now, you said you're sort of secluded as
far as having access to a lot of today's material. Is there anything
you've seen, either from today or back then, that you would compare to your own
JB: You have me at a disadvantage. I haven't seen
enough to know. What I have seen that came from Dan Hawke and the Sarge
has not been even in the ballpark of what I did. Some of it's been very
good, but there's no storyline. And this interview thing just slays
me. There's no rhyme nor reason.
I do have one that Sarge sent me of Hogtied that doesn't even have the
actress's name, but the guy in it looks like he could be John Malkovich's
double. That one little movie is really good.
R: Do you remember the name of
JB: No, I have no idea. It's not on the
Sarge posted that he had showed you some stuff and that
what you liked the best was from ZFX. Do you remember
Yeah, probably. The stuff that shows it
like it is. None of this letting her cum all the time, and repetition and
"nice guy" bullshit. You know, hardcore. Rough. Again, the
principle involved here, whether people want to talk about it in nice company or
not, it doesn't matter. The simple fact of the matter is that in the
Western world for the last 2000 years, if you take a young man that's full of
testosterone...or an older man that's full of testosterone...and you put him in
a situation where he has the place, the equipment and the ability to do anything
to a gorgeous young woman that he wants to, with absolutely no repercussions of
any kind, he will torture her and rape her. That's the core of what this
R: Right, exactly. And ZFX is about the closest I've
seen to having the same vision of what you were putting out for HOM and
Cal-Star. All of his films are simulated as far as the actual intercourse,
but they're realistic simulations. What I like about Rick's work is that
the fantasies he's putting on the screen are totally nonconsensual.
JB: We're making a MOVIE! That's the kind of
stuff men like to see. And what's being done with the Japanese? I
used to have a neighbor who took a tour of Japan and she came back with stacks
of these magazines and little booklets...it was all artwork. But by
God! It was the absolutely just the most sadistic stuff I'd ever
seen. It was great!
And I find out off of public radio, there was a report about pornography in
Japan. And the report said that 85% of everything that came off a
printing press in Japan was pornography. It was all pretty much the
same genre. Either an evil warlord that used pussy juice to make his
elixir to fuck women to death, or it was the errant daughter or wife that the
husband or father hired Guido to come kidnap and torture. And these
were horrific and it was everywhere. She went to dinner one night to a
family restaurant where there were children present, and in the center of the
room as they ate their meal was a live display of bondage. This girl was
tied up, hoisted up and being whipped...in the restaurant!
R: Yeah, that's just part of the culture out there.
They're way ahead of us.
JB: And in Japan they have no rape. It does not
happen. Again, it's the old story, the more pornography, the less violence
you have in your society. It is a great safety valve. And we will
never have it in this country until we get religion and government
separated. We do not have separation of church and state.
R: Well, I think people are slowly becoming attuned with
the idea that it's not like the Meese Report where porn actually causes
rape. If anything, porn gives you a release from whatever dark thoughts
you may be having. But what do you consider pushing the envelope too
JB: Cutting a girl's nipples off. Any kind of
mutilation. Anything that does permanent damage to a girl's body.
R: How about simulated burning? Is that going
JB: No! Even real burning, if they wanna
do it. As long as it isn't disfiguring. As long as it doesn't do
permanent, serious damage.
Well, in one of my old HOM magazines, there was an advertisement for a loop called Red Hot B&D and there's a still where you're actually piling wood between the legs of a woman who's staked out on the ground. The text actually said, "her cruel captor starts a fire between her legs".
JB: Yeah, I built a little line or stack of wood, starting down between her ankles, which of course, her legs were spread real wide, right up to her pussy. I had cleaned the ground real good so that the fire would stay exactly where I wanted it. And I used a little kerosene, just very sparingly, and then I set it on fire. And it's gonna burn closer and closer and closer and closer...until it gets right up between her legs.
R: Was she scared about shooting that scene?
JB: She was...anxious. She had to trust that I wouldn't let it damage her. But it was exciting. Hey, the fear factor. One thing people don't seem to realize is that when a woman is afraid, her pussy gets wet. It's a protective mechanism. In case she's raped, it's well lubricated.
R: Right, but so when I finally got to see the 8mm loop that HOM put out for the Bondage Classics series, they had actually cut that scene. There was no fire at all. There was a jump cut and then suddenly the movie was over.
JB: It was way too hot for this country. Barbara couldn't put that out in America. Because it worked real good.
R: Yeah, because years later, I finally got a hold of the original loop and saw the scenes that had been cut out and to this day, it's probably my favorite HOM loop of all time.
JB: Well, there was another one of those Violence deals. There was a small girl, petite, short reddish-blonde hair...I had her hanging upside down and I put a big candle...I shoved at least 8 inches of candle into her. And there's a good shot right at the end of the sequence where you can't even see candle, all you can see is the flame coming out of her pussy. And it was hot. She was feeling it. [Editor's note: this scene described is actually from the Erotic Perversion loop: Perversion House.]
R: Cool, and that was from one of the Violence movies?
JB: Yep, and there was another whole sequence I shot where Barbara told me, "I'm putting this in the trash. Don't do that again."
R: And what was that?
JB: Oh, I had a girl hung in the Chinese splits. And that's the only time I ever had a girl with a shaved pussy. I loved shaved pussies. Nobody would do it back then, it just wasn't the thing. And it was with Kelly Long. I got her shaved as smooth as a baby's butt and hung in the Chinese splits and held a candle right up under her pussy. And you could see the flame licking across the lips of her pussy and she was screaming for real. I had her coated with baby oil and I had fingers in her, also. But I could feel the heat myself. Her pussy was just about scorched. Didn't quite burn her but came close.
R: Are there any stills or video of that available?
JB: Uh uh. No, hell, a lot of times the best stuff I ever did wound up on the editing room floor.
R: That's too bad.
JB: Well, Barbara's main concern was making money. And to make money, you have to stay in business. And to stay in business, you can't be in jail or in court. And that was a huge problem back then. Huge. Like I said, what the people can do today, if I would have been able to do those things, man, I would made movies that people wouldn't fucking believe.
R: Can you tell me about a movie you made called Violence where you actually ran skewers through a lady's breasts?
JB: Well, in the first place, I had nothing to do with the title. I did not even know about this term Violence 1, 2 and 3 until Sgt Major gave me DVDs of the things.
R: But you did make them, right? Those are your movies?
JB: Yeah, I made all of them.
R: Now unfortunately, before I ever saw that movie, someone had clued me in that they weren't really her actual breasts being skewered, that they were fake, is that correct?
JB: Right. The one in particular is quite an elaborate process of molding and casting with plaster and then using modeling clay onto the mold to literally make big breasts. I had Cynthia use her own breasts for the mold. That had to go through another process, a negative being made, and we used this material that was used to make fishing lures, some kind of squirmy worms, sort of a silicone plastic. It's not latex. I made this false front, like a shirt front. That's why I had her wear a turtleneck.
One of the things I also did to make it appear real, was to make blood come out. This was a great amount of work. I put soda straws inside before I ever poured the mold. If you watch closely, there's one point in that movie where I'm looking for where the straw is, because that straw has been filled with fake blood. And one of the shots is just perfect. When the needle comes out, blood comes out with it. That's because the needle's been run through the hollow part of a soda straw filled with fake blood and when it punctures out of the side, it bled.
R: You've done a lot of needles through breasts before, why didn't you do it in this particular instance?
JB: Well, the breast has to be very firm, and big. And that's hard to come by. And you have to find a younger woman where this is something that arouses her...the obvious agony. She either just wants to take it or likes it or something in the brain chemistry is weird or different that the pain becomes sexual euphoria. And you also have to be very careful to sure that everything is sterile. That is a big requirement. It's not all fun and games, you also have to use common sense.
R: So your model in this case wasn't particularly into that sort of treatment?
JB: Oh, she was. But she didn't have breasts big enough or firm enough to actually do it. But what really disappointed me 20 or 30 years later, when I finally got to see the thing, I was just livid. Whoever did the editing left out the best part of the thing. In that movie, there are a couple of sequences where I'm sticking needles into her pussy but it's very dark and very difficult to see anything. I realized we had bad lighting when we started that and I said "Guys, we've gotta fix the lighting here. This is terrible. This isn't gonna work."
So we corrected it so that we had beautiful lighting. I peeled her pussy open by stabbing needles through the peeled back labia into her leg. Literally nailed it open. Spread it open and kept it spread by 6 needles through each side of her pussy. And you could see right up inside her, this nice hot pink, dripping. It was beautiful. She was so hot, she couldn't see straight. And here her pussy is being held open but with 6 needles through each side and it's not there!
R: What, they actually cut that part?
JB: I don't know who did it or why. Who knows? I had nothing to do with happened to those things after they left my hands undeveloped. Of course, all of those involved had to be cognoscente of the US government and censorship and let's put 'em all in jail and throw away the key.
R: So this was not actually intended for US audiences?
JB: Never. Things change drastically and that's why it's even here today. The only feedback I ever got on that particular movie was when it hit the market in Europe, some women's rights organization protested.
R: Wow, kind of a nice feather in your cap. Must have seemed realistic enough for them, then.
JB: That told me I was successful.
R: Well, today, there's a website out there called Torture Galaxy where
they actually have women getting huge skewers put through their breasts...
JB: I'd love to see that.
R: It's pretty wild, but it's consensual so I'm not really
all that turned on by it.
JB: My significant other has had a very expensive breast
augmentation, done in Denmark. She has enormous breasts but the implants
are under the muscle and her breasts are made so huge by her own body fat.
And she gets off on having her breasts skewered completely through. It's
the sexiest thing you've ever seen to watch a woman cum from that. I'd
give anything to have video of that. I didn't know it existed.
R: Oh yeah, without having access to the Internet, your
eyes would pop out of their sockets if you could see what was
JB: Well then, you have just become my best friend.
Because if you can get me that stuff, I'll be eternally grateful. Nothing
I can do for you other than answer questions and try to advise anybody out there
who's thinking about doing this, or that are doing it, and show them ways to
improve it. Of course, we always have to be mindful of Big Brother.
Now, I've got a question for you. You said this thing about
skewering needles completely through the breast...are these nice boobs?
Are they pretty?
Well, they're not so pretty once
they're all covered with blood.
JB: Yeah, but to begin with, are they
R: No, some of these women are quite
JB: Wonderful. I'd give you my right nut to have
R: Well, I'm not really sure I'm interested in that.
JB: No, it probably wouldn't do you much good.
R: Now, you saw some of Dan Hawke's work. What did
you think of that?
JB: Some of his work is absolutely
superb. And there are 2 or 3 that he sent me where the girl is
actually crying real tears. She's obviously in real pain. That's
R: To me, Dan is a real special filmmaker. He used
to post to our board a lot and I'm a big fan of his work.
JB: There's a couple I saw in the previews in the DVDs he
sent me that I want to get a hold of. One of them is this same girl...oh,
she's great. She's just terrified. She is one of these young
highnesses and she chokes herself trying to get away from him. I mean,
she's really straining against that rope around her neck to try to avoid his
R: A couple more questions here. What do you think
about the prevalence of tattoos on today's bondage
JB: Oh, I hate it. I just hate it.
These tattooed women...(groans in dissatisfaction). Hey, if the movie was
being made the way the movie ought to be made, I guess I could ignore
R: How about piercings?
JB: Piercings through the lip, though the nose...that
sucks. Now, studs in the tongue...have you ever had your cock sucked by a
woman who's got one or more studs in her tongue?
R: I've heard it improves fellatio, yes.
JB: Oh, it's fantastic! It is fantastic. My
wife has three. Oh God! Piercing through the nipples for purposes of
torture, or jewelry...wonderful. I'm not fond of piercing of the
labia. It doesn't really do anything.
R: So you don't mind piercings through the nipples as far
as somebody in their lifestyle who has studs though her nipples, or rings?
JB: With the jewelry, it's a source of personal
excitement. My wife has her nipples pierced and you can put anything
through her nipple from 2-inch rings to these little diamond studs that nobody
even knows is there. But she does.
R: My real problem with tattoos and piercings is that my
ideal fantasy victim would not be the kind of girl who goes out and does all
this stuff to her body. I want her to be innocent. I want her to be
pure. You don't want to rip her top off and then discover she's already
got tattoos on her boobs.
JB: Right, that's counter-productive. That's why I
say I abhor them. I hate 'em. If I had the choice, I would not
use a model with tattoos.
R: And one last question. Given all the crap that
you've had to deal with, especially from the government, would you choose the
bondage career path if you had a chance to do it all over again?
JB: If I had enough money to shoot in Mexico or in Europe
and I could pick my models off the street, like I always did...I'm not going to
use any of these stock models because I want a girl that doesn't have any
preconceived notions as to what she has to do and what she doesn't have to
do...Yeah, I would, sure. You know, there's a lot involved there. I
have an ordinary life. And my wife has her family. My family never
knew what I did. My brother knew but nobody else. And her family has
no idea that I did that, and I was doing that when we were married. They
would have disowned her.
You have to live in a real world. And I this is one of the
things that I think is detrimental to people who make this sort of stuff.
They get so wrapped up in it that they lose sight of the everyday world.
And you don't wanna do that. You still have to have neighbors and relatives
and nieces and nephews. You have to stay grounded in reality. Doing
work to satisfy fantasies is just that. It's doing work to satisfy
fantasies. It should not become your life.
R: Right, I understand. Hey, it's been a real
pleasure getting a chance to talk to one of my idols.
JB: Well, I owe it all to Dan Hawke.